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<p>Well, better safe than sorry I guess. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/12/2025 12:39 PM, David Boundy via
Patentpractice wrote:<br>
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<div>Justice Gorsuch (while still on the Tenth Circuit)
explained that one relies on PTO subregulatory
guidance to override a statute at one's peril. I
couldn't remember the case until I hit send, then it
came to me <a href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3098648296141854653" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=3098648296141854653</a>
The PTO doesn't have authority to waive the six
month deadline just by giving it an oddball name.
"Any action" means "any action." Whatever authority
the PTO had to torture statutes ended with Loper
Bright last summer. The PTO structures its practices
to maximize fee income, not to give value to
applicants. When it comes to a choice between fee
revenue and the law, the law can go to hell. So don't
trust these representations -- your opposing defendant
won't.<br>
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Mar 12, 2025
at 1:19\u202fPM Sharon Rubin via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">As Timothy said,
Missing Parts has always been interpreted
as 2 month + 5 months. 2 different
docketing systems we\u2019ve used agree, so it
must be true!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Our current
docketing system says with regard to
Missing Parts: \u201cThere are five extensions
available, so the final time can be 7
months after the date mailed. See MPEP
710.02(d) which explains why this time can
go beyond 6 months.\u201d</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt">MPEP</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt">
</span><b><span style="font-size:11pt">710.02(d)
Difference Between Shortened
Statutory Periods for Reply and
Specified Time Limits [R-07.2015]</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">\u201cThe 2-month time
period for reply to A Notice to File
Missing Parts of an Application is not
identified on the Notice as a statutory
period subject to <a href="https://www.bitlaw.com/source/35usc/133.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">35 U.S.C. 133</a>.
Thus, extensions of time of up to 5 months
under <a href="https://www.bitlaw.com/source/37cfr/1-136.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">37 CFR 1.136(a)</a>,
followed by additional time under <a href="https://www.bitlaw.com/source/37cfr/1-136.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">37 CFR 1.136(b)</a>,
when appropriate, are permitted.\u201d</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt">Sharon Rubin</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11pt"></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Goldberg, Judi
via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2025
12:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners.
This is not for laypersons to seek
legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Goldberg, Judi <<a href="mailto:jgoldberg@leydig.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jgoldberg@leydig.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice]
Extended Due Date/Sanity Check
Question</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">If the
notice is dated 10/17/24, even with a two
month response date (i.e., 12/17/24), and
assuming the normal 3 month extension
available, the application wouldn\u2019t be
abandoned until 3/<b>17</b>/25.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">My
understanding has always been that you get
4 months of extension for a two month
response date, and 5 months extension on a
one-month response, so everything equals a
total available time of 6 months.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Let us
know what you find out from PTO Legal.
Thanks!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Judi</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Suzannah K.
Sundby via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12, 2025
11:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners.
This is not for laypersons to seek
legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Suzannah K. Sundby <<a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">suzannah@canadylortz.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice]
Extended Due Date/Sanity Check
Question</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p><b><span style="color:rgb(184,49,47)">[External
Email]</span></b></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Yeah, read what
Boundy wrote and felt like everything I
know and understand was turned upside
down\u2026</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Btw, PatentCrapper
indicates that the Notice mailed on
October 17<sup>th</sup> is a Pre-Exam
Formalities Notice.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I\u2019m going to
contact Patent Legal because the given
case is a mess.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">12/22/2021
Received Notice of Acceptance</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">09/03/2024
Notice withdrawing the Notice of
Acceptance</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">09/13/2024
Notice of DO/EO Missing Requirements
Mailed</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">10/17/2024
Notice withdrawing the Notice mailed
09/13/2024; Requirement for Sequence
Listing setting 2 mo due date</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">03/12/2025
Abandonment Notice indicating no timely
reply to the Notice of 10/17/2024</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Suzannah K. Sundby</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">
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Partner</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Timothy Snowden
via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 12,
2025 12:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Timothy Snowden <<a href="mailto:tdsnowden@outlook.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">tdsnowden@outlook.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice]
Extended Due Date/Sanity Check
Question</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I see your point, but I know the office
(FWIW) interprets Missing Parts as having
5 month extension available, which is what
I was taught. I understood the keyword
here in 35 USC 132 to be "ON EXAMINATION."
But this isn't examination because it's
always
<i>pre-</i>examination. In other words,
although this may be an action, it's
during a pre-examination review, not "on
examination". Not sure how clearly that
distinction carries into other thing,
though.</p>
<p>Have I been missing something for years
now? What happens when the office grants a
patent after response to NTFMP at 7 months</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 3/12/2025 11:18
AM, David Boundy via Patentpractice
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think you
have one more month, to total six
months, April 17. I disagree with
Tim Snowden -- the six month
deadline is statutory. The
statutory deadline applies to all
"objections or requirements" or
"actions" even if the underlying
basis is regulatory. "Action" is
defined in 5 U.S.C. 551. Look at
sections 132 and 133 --</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<h1><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">35 U.S.C. § 132 -
Notice of rejection;
reexamination
</span></h1>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="m_-7005315204254144432_m_-5100530667460591539_m_5223192907427478280_m_-1430253126515039943_m_414693503247399813_a" moz-do-not-send="true"></a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(a) Whenever, on
examination, any claim for a
patent is rejected,
<span style="color:black;background:yellow">or any objection or requirement
made</span>, the Director
shall notify the applicant
thereof, stating the reasons for
such rejection, or objection or
requirement, together with such
information and references as
may be useful in judging of the
propriety of continuing the
prosecution of his application;
and if after receiving such
notice, the applicant persists
in his claim for a patent, with
or without amendment, the
application shall be
reexamined. No amendment shall
introduce new matter into the
disclosure of the invention.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<h1><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">35 U.S.C. § 133 -
Time for prosecuting application
</span></h1>
<p>Upon <span style="color:black;background:yellow">failure of the applicant to
prosecute the application within
six months after any action
therein, of which notice has
been given or mailed to the
applicant</span>, or within such
shorter time, not less than thirty
days, as fixed by the Director in
such action, the application shall
be regarded as abandoned by the
parties thereto.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Five months
extension is only available for a
few situations --</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> -- teh
initial time is one month</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> -- teh
deadline runs from some action of
the applicant (such as filing a
Notice of Appeal) rather than
responding to an objection,
requirement, or "any action" of
the PTO.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 12,
2025 at 11:15<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span>AM Suzannah K.
Sundby via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Received
a Notification to Comply
(with Sequence Listing
Requirements), which is
essentially a Notice of
Missing Parts.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
Notice was mailed October
17, 2024, and sets an
extendible 2 month shortened
due date.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="768" height="103" style="width:8in;height:1.0729in" id="m_-7005315204254144432m_-5100530667460591539m_5223192907427478280m_-1430253126515039943m_414693503247399813m_6441016958688665737Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:part1.N4W6clpx.X662oOgM@outlook.com" class=""></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The USPTO
just mailed a Notice of
Abandonment for failing to
timely respond.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thus, I
need a sanity check:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black;background:yellow">Because it is a 2-month shortened
date, the due date can be
extended by 5 months to
May 17, 2025 \u2013 Correct?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Suzannah K. Sundby</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">
<b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204)">|</span></b> Partner</span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">Cambridge
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