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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Paris Convention Article 4 needs to come with an asterisk that says "Terms and Conditions Apply." For example, if the USPTO won't play ball and provide a certified copy in absence of payment of the fee, then, from a practical
standpoint, it doesn't really matter what Article 4. Also, the Patent Law Treaty allows the USPTO to assign a filing date to a patent application filed by reference and then treat it as though it was never filed for purposes of Article 4 if the applicant does
not meet the subsequent </span><span style="font-size: 14.6667px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">requirements within the set amount of time</span><span style="font-size: 11pt;">.</span></div>
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As for a US provisional, domestic benefit can be claimed under 119(e), which does not require copendency, or under 120, which does require copendency (there might be other significant differences, but I never claim 120 benefit to a provisional so I haven't
looked into this). The former is accomplished by listing the nonprovisional in the ADS as "claims the benefit of provisional" and in the latter is accomplished by listing the nonprovisional as a continuation or CIP of the provisional.</div>
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It looks like David found the statutory loophole justifying not paying the nonprovisional fee. Back in 1994, 35 USC 119 and 41(a)(1) were amended so that 119(e)(2) refers to 41(a)(1)(C), which, at the time, listed the fee for a provisional application.</div>
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However, in 2011, 41(a)(1) was amended so that the provisional fee was moved to 41(a)(1)(D) without a conforming amendment to 119(e)(2).</div>
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So Katherine, you have your petition/appeal pathway laid out when the USPTO refuses to acknowledge the benefit claim to the provisional\u2014i.e., 35 USC 119(e)(2) doesn't require payment of the fee due to the typo and the rule requiring payment of fee exceeds the
USPTO's rulemaking authority because it is substantive not procedural.</div>
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<b>Scott Nielson</b></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of David Boundy via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 5, 2025 3:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Revival of provisional application?</font>
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<div>I disagree in part with Roger.</div>
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<div>For countries other than the U.S., Paris Convention Art 4 says you can make the priority claim "<span>whatever may be the subsequent fate of the application</span>."
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<div>But for a U.S. daughter, Paris doesn't apply. You have to meet the requirements of § 120, including that the daughter must be "filed before the patenting or abandonment of or termination of proceedings on the first application."
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<div>I'm a bit confused about this one. § 119(e)(2) says you can't rely on the provisional unless the fees are paid --- but the reference to § 41(a)(1)(A) or (C) -- I don't understand that. They're nonprovisional and plant patent.)
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Thu, Jun 5, 2025 at 4:27\u202fPM Roger Browdy via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">I don\u2019t understand why you need to revive at all. It received a filing date. Was a basic fee paid that is required for retention? A provisional does not have to be alive when a PCT or non-provisional is filed. Why revive at all?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:black">Roger L. Browdy<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:7.5pt"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:rgb(23,71,158)">_____________________________________________ <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:rgb(23,71,158)">FisherBroyles, LLP<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:rgb(23,71,158)">direct: +1 202-277-5198<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 5, 2025 10:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Katherine Koenig <<a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" target="_blank">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Revival of provisional application?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi Timothy, <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Thank you for your reply, that\u2019s good news. One rub is that the AAU representative also told me that the POA I\u2019d filed won\u2019t be processed because the provisional has lapsed (I\u2019ve been told \u2013 and have seen
\u2013 this many times when trying to access provisional applications filed by the client, which I think is so frustrating), so I won\u2019t be able to see the entire filewrapper. Hopefully the client still has all the documentation he\u2019d received \u2013 and he doesn\u2019t
have access to the file either! He thinks he filed as a guest and doesn\u2019t have a USPTO account? Nothing like untying a knot at the last minute!
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Best regards,</span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Katherine<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Registered Patent Attorney<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Timothy Snowden via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 5, 2025 10:50 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Timothy Snowden <<a href="mailto:tdsnowden@outlook.com" target="_blank">tdsnowden@outlook.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] Revival of provisional application?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p>So if I understand that the prov was filed 6/16/2024, and went abandoned 2/25/2025 due to failure to respond to NTFMP, then you should be able to petition to revive unintentionally abandoned application. I just did the same thing in a self-filed provisional
where the ADS had not been signed by all inventors and so was treated as not having been filed. They didn't get the notice, the application went abandoned, and as soon as we discovered it when I got the case we filed petition to revive. PTO form SB0064. Make
sure to comb through the file history and also file with the petition a reply to any outstanding requirements. It's less than 2 years, so you only have to state that the delay was unintentional - you don't need a statement.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 6/5/2025 9:44 AM, Katherine Koenig via Patentpractice wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi everyone, </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">We have a utility/foreign filing deadline of 6/16/2025 based on the filing date of a US provisional application (6/16/2025). The client filed the provisional application himself, and had provided me with
the application as filed and the ADS he\u2019d filed. I\u2019m today learning that he\u2019d received a Notice to File Missing Parts because no certification statement for his micro-entity status had been filed with the application.
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt">I called the AAU and was told the provisional has been abandoned since 2/25/2025 because the client never replied to the Notice. I\u2019m aware of petitioning to restore the right of priority to a prior-filed
provisional that has naturally expired at the end of the 12-month term, but is there a way to revive a provisional for failure to respond to a Notice? The AAU representative told me there\u2019s nothing we can do, and I\u2019m not aware of any solution \u2013 but hoping
someone here has a better answer. Thank you! </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Best regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Katherine</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Registered Patent Attorney</span></i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<b><span style="margin:0px; font-size:10pt; color:rgb(96,110,154)">David Boundy </span></b><span style="margin:0px; font-size:10pt; color:rgb(124,134,154)">| Partner </span><span style="margin:0px; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:10pt; color:rgb(124,134,154)"><span style="margin:0px; background-color:white; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">|</span><span style="margin:0px; background-color:white"><span style="margin:0px; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></span></span><span style="margin:0px; font-size:10pt; color:rgb(124,134,154)">Potomac Law
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<span style="margin:0px; font-size:10pt; color:rgb(124,134,154)">P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459</span></p>
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