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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">This forum is so valued! It would have taken a LOT of time to track all this information down.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I agree that single-applicant representation is the preferred way to go, albeit more work than a normal owner-assignee representation. Based on the responses, it seems a preferred
practice will be to:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Obtain and record one-pager license summary specifically memorializing Licensee\u2019s right to prepare, file, prosecute, defend,
etc. (as covered by the license), to make public record of \u201csufficient proprietary interest\u201d<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Obtain from Licensor a signed agreement acknowledging Firm\u2019s representation only of Licensee for patents and technology
specified in the license agreement and that Licensee has opportunity to obtain independent counsel, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Revise PCT application(s) to reflect Licensee as applicant. My understanding of Paris Article 4 is such that the license
agreement\u2019s grant of rights to Licensee should, in this instance, serve as sufficient evidence that licensee is a Successor in Interest for purposes of claiming priority to foreign applications.<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Obtain PoA from Licensee<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Identify Licensee as applicant (one having sufficient proprietary rights) in any existing and all new U.S. applications
claiming priority to Licensor\u2019s PCT and foreign applications. <o:p></o:p></span></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">-Jim<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of David Hricik via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, June 11, 2025 at 8:35</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">AM<br>
<b>To: </b>For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>David Hricik <david@hricik.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Patentpractice] PoA/Representation of licensee and licensor?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">What Rick said, and leaving client identity unclear invites a long one.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">David Hricik<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Jun 11, 2025, at 11:28</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">AM, Rick Neifeld via Patentpractice <patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">"</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">claims relating to the Patent Rights [i.e., full interest in several existing foreign patents]." Reading between the lines, there is the
possibility that you are taking responsibility for applications in their international phase or even before an international filing. If so, beware of switching applicants, and see 1.46(b)("</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> person who otherwise shows sufficient
proprietary interest in the matter must have been identified as the applicant for the United States in the international stage of the international application or as the applicant in the publication of the international registration under Hague Agreement Article
10(3).</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">"). And, if the international phase claims Paris priority to an earlier filing, beware of diversity of the applicants under Paris article 4C.(4), PCT article 8(2)(a).</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> Regarding your question, though, I think a joint representation is an ethics nightmare.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Rick</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 10:11</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">AM David Boundy via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">I agree with Roger with a small modification. You could do it either way --<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> -- either a joint representation engagement letter, joint Power of Attorney, all the encumberments of a joint representation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> -- a sole party representation, specifically called out in the engagement letter.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">Either way works. The former will by yucky and inefficient for the rest of time until the patent expires. The latter will be a pain in the neck in the short term, then smooth sailing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">But the practical implementation of the second one is kinda tricky. How to designate "applicant" so that an appointment from an assignee is sufficient "person who otherwise shows sufficient proprietary interest
in the matter" so that the PTO will recognize you? I suggest a one-pager from the owner/licensor that basically reiterates the
</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u201cbe responsible for and shall control the preparation, filing, prosecution, protection, defense and maintenance of all claims relating to the Patent Rights [i.e., full interest in several
existing foreign patents] licensed hereunder which are solely applicable to the Field of Use (\u201cLicensee Claims\u201d).\u201d</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> language. Your licensee wants to record the interest somehow. So:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> 1. get a one-pager parallel to the usual one-page short-form assignment that you get for recording purposes to avoid recording the full agreement. This one-pager shoudl include the license, any limits
on revocation, and the power to control prosecution (that is, all teh terms favorable to your client that you don't want the licensor to renounce).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> 2. Get the licensor's signature on that, record it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> 3. Get the Power of Attorney from your licensee.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"> 4. Change "applicant" (which typically requires the Change of Applicant, Notice of Recordation, 3.73 Statement, and Power of Attorney filed as a single filing).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt">On Wed, Jun 11, 2025 at 9:48</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">\u202f</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt">AM Masson, Roger M. via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Jim,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I haven\u2019t had this situation in patent prosecution but the representation agreement should spell out that you do
not represent Licensor assuming you decide to represent only Licensee, which I would be inclined to go with to avoid issues when the parties disagree on something.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">Roger </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">Masson</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">Senior Counsel</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">Hinshaw & Culbertson LLP</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">151 North Franklin Street, Suite 2500</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">Chicago</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#002856">, </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Larsen via Patentpractice<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 10, 2025 10:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Jim Larsen <<a href="mailto:jim@larsen-ip.com" target="_blank">jim@larsen-ip.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Patentpractice] PoA/Representation of licensee and licensor?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;color:white">Dear Listmates, I have a question of first impression (for me) regarding power of attorney. A new client (Licensee) has, by license agreement,
agreed to solely \u201cbe responsible for and shall control the preparation, filing, prosecution, protection,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Dear Listmates,</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have a question of first impression (for me) regarding power of attorney. </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A new client (Licensee) has, by license agreement, agreed to solely \u201cbe responsible for and shall control the preparation,
filing, prosecution, protection, defense and maintenance of all claims relating to the Patent Rights [i.e., full interest in several existing foreign patents] licensed hereunder which are solely applicable to the Field of Use (\u201cLicensee Claims\u201d).\u201d Note: Licensor
is currently a part owner of Licensee.</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The agreement also requires that Licensor have a chance to review the text of each patent application \u201crelating to
Licensee Claims\u201d before filing, and \u201cLicensee shall give Licensor the opportunity to provide comments concerning the preparation, filing, prosecution, protection, defense and maintenance of the Licensee Claims, and shall give reasonable consideration to such
comments\u2026.\u201d</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Acknowledging the potential breadth of \u201crelating to\u201d language, the license agreement was reportedly hard-fought, was
executed before we got involved, and is not likely to change. So, my question regards power of attorney and (joint?) representation. I think we needn\u2019t represent the Licensor, and Licensor\u2019s \u201copportunity to provide comments\u201d does not necessarily require
us to directly communicate with Licensor. Is it nevertheless advisable to get POA and conflicts waiver from both Licensor and Licensee? Or, since Licensor is a part owner of Licensee, would POA from and representation of Licensee be sufficient? </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I see these and other variations as each having pluses and minuses, but I bet some of you have dealt with a similar
situation. What works best?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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