<div dir="ltr"><div>I believe that I first initiated this discussion a few years ago on this listserve, and I initiated the discussion about fees for the following reason. . </div><div><br></div><div>Circa 2000, the USPTO published an OG explaining the duties of a practitioner in dealing with a foreign agent on behalf of the entity to whom the practitioner had a power of attorney, including issues relating to fee sharing. Based upon my current recollection, the USPTO OG noticed that working at the instruction of a foreign agent on behalf of the one to whom you had a duty (aka the assignee or inventor, now under AIA generally the applicant) resulted in your you being responsible for the fee practices of the foreign agent. And the USPTO specifically noted that a foreign agent padding or your bill, such as adding to their bill a percentage of your charges, was ethically improper for which you could be sanctioned by the PTO's OED. </div><div><br></div><div>And I had also long considered the issue of privity of contract, wherein a foreign agent could refuse to pay my firm's invoices, claiming that the client had not paid the foreign law firm and therefore they were not liable for my firm's invoices. That happened occasionally during my 30 years of practice and was always concerning. I did not like paying my attorneys for their work and then having the foreign agent not pay my firm back for our work, leaving me, as the majority owner, holding the bag, paying out real money and not getting paid back. Having thought through those issues long ago I came up with language which I include in the same form as all of my firm's POAs, and I separated confirm in writing my firm's privity counter party. </div><div><br></div><div>I have posted this before on this list serve, but I will do so again. Here is the language in my firm's 37 CFR 1.32 POA form, and I <b>bold </b>the relevant language.</div><div>______________________________</div><div>37 CFR 1.32 POWER OF ATTORNEY FROM APPLICANT, APPOINTMENT OF AGENT, AND 37 CFR 1.33 SPECIFICATION OF CORRESPONDENCE ADDRESS<br><br> I represent the Applicant. The Applicant is the Assignor(s) if Assignor(s) exist. Otherwise, the Applicant is the Inventor(s).<br> <br><b>APPOINTMENT OF AGENT: I appoint, as my local agent, to provide instructions on my behalf to Neifeld IP Law, for any and all action to be taken in the United States Patent and Trademark</b> Office: [NAME]<br>Local agent named: [NAME]<br><br> In the event I replace my local agent with a new agent, I agree to notify Neifeld IP Law of the change and identify the new agent, and instruct Neifeld IP Law to take instructions from that new agent. I have discussed with my local agent my representation by Neifeld IP Law. This discussion included the fees to be charged and the services to be rendered by Neifeld IP Law. <b>My agent confirmed that they would not impose a surcharge on fees for services of Neifeld IP Law, but would bill me for my agent\u2019s services and the actual fees billed by Neifeld IP Law. </b><br>POWER OF ATTORNEY: I hereby revoke all previous powers of attorney given in this application. I hereby appoint as my/our attorney(s) or agent(s), and to transact all business in the United States Patent and Trademark Office connected therewith for the application identified above, to be the Patent Practitioner(s) associated with: Customer Number 31518.<br>SPECIFICATION OF CORRESPONDENCE ADDRESS: Please recognize or change the correspondence address for the application identified above to be the address associated with: Customer Number 31518. <br> SIGNATURE of Applicant for Patent <br>The Applicant is named: <br><br> The undersigned (whose Title is supplied below) is authorized to act on behalf of the Applicant. <br>SIGNATURE AND DATE <br>NAME <br>TITLE <br><br>__________________________</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Best regards</div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>Rick Neifeld, J.D., Ph.D. <br></div><div>Neifeld IP Law PLLC<br></div><div>9112 Shearman Street, Fairfax VA 22032</div><div>Mobile: 7034470727<br></div><div>Email: <a href="mailto:RichardNeifeld@gmail.com" target="_blank">RichardNeifeld@gmail.com</a>; <br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 3:29\u202fPM Orvis via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<span dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">I certainly do not recall. I thought this type of language would be appropriate for the engagement letter.</span>
<br>
<br>
<br><span dir="ltr" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px">But maybe this is the answer: That language is included in the power of attorney because you can be certain that the applicant will sign the power of attorney, whereas they might not sign the engagement letter.</span>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<p>Oct 27, 2025 2:22:33 PM Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>>:</p>
</div>
<blockquote lang="EN-US" style="margin:0px;border-left:3px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:10px">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I know that\u2026 but I\u2019m trying to figure out what prompted some of us to discuss on this Listserv\u2026 did the USPTO indicate it was cracking down on <span>POAs</span> and representation or something?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Suzannah K. Sundby</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204)">|</span></b> Partner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank"><u><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">canady + lortz</span></u><u><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);text-decoration:none;font-size:8pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> <span style="font-variant:small-caps">LLP</span></span></u></a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">1050 30th Street, NW</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Washington, DC 20007</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">T: 202.486.8020</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">F: 202.540.8020</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);text-decoration:none;font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">suzannah@canadylortz.com</span></a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"></span></p>
<div style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;padding:0in 0in 6pt;border-bottom:1pt solid rgb(0,0,204)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in;margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);text-decoration:none;font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">www.canadylortz.com</span></a></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style="color:rgb(127,127,127);font-size:7pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Confidentiality Notice: <span> </span>This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. <span> </span>It is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. <span> </span>This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged or confidential, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. <span> </span>If you are not the named addressee, you may not read, print, retain, copy, or disseminate this message or any part. <span> </span>If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete all copies of the message.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> David Boundy <<a href="mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com" target="_blank">DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 27, 2025 2:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Suzannah K. Sundby <<a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank">suzannah@canadylortz.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Patentpractice] POAs and Liaison Law Firms</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><u></u>
<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">That says you can take instructions from your foreign instructing counsel, and that instructions don't have to come direct from the ultimate client. Keeps you from getting whipsawed / stuck with liability if the client changes his/her mind.</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><u></u>
<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">On Mon, Oct 27, 2025 at 1:39<span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif">\u202f</span>PM Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentpractice <<a href="mailto:patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;margin-left:4.8pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">Can someone please remind me why we collectively thought it best to include language in our POAs that indicates the applicant/assignee who uses another [e.g., foreign] law firm/agent as a go-between to send instructions to us?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">What did the USPTO do or say that made us decide to include something like the following in our POAs? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0in 0.5in;font-size:12pt;background:white;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><i><span lang="EN-CA" style="color:black;font-size:11pt">\u201cThe assignee authorizes its U.S. attorneys and agents to accept and follow instructions from the liaison firm/attorney that is responsible for communicating its instructions to the U.S. attorneys and agents. The assignee will ensure that its U.S. attorneys and agents will be appropriately notified of any change in the responsible liaison firm/attorney.\u201d</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/" target="_blank"><span style="color:black;text-decoration:none">Suzannah K. Sundby</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> <b><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204)">|</span></b> Partner</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none;font-size:10pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">canady + lortz</span><span style="text-decoration:none;font-size:8pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> <span style="font-variant:small-caps">LLP</span></span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">1050 30th Street, NW</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Washington, DC 20007</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">T: 202.486.8020</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">F: 202.540.8020</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:4pt 0in 0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="mailto:suzannah@canadylortz.com" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none;font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">suzannah@canadylortz.com</span></a></span></p>
<div style="border-top:none currentcolor;border-right:none currentcolor;border-left:none currentcolor;padding:0in 0in 6pt;border-bottom:1pt solid windowtext">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,204);font-size:11pt"><a href="http://www.canadylortz.com/" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none;font-size:9pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">www.canadylortz.com</span></a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;text-align:justify"><span style="color:rgb(127,127,127);font-size:7pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Confidentiality Notice: This message is being sent by or on behalf of a lawyer. It is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This communication may contain information that is proprietary, privileged or confidential, or otherwise legally exempt from disclosure. If you are not the named addressee, you may not read, print, retain, copy, or disseminate this message or any part. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete all copies of the message.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif">-- <br>
Patentpractice mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><br clear="all"></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:Aptos,sans-serif"><br><span>-- </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin-left:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-right:0in"><span style="color:rgb(102,127,160);font-size:9pt;font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif"><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(102,127,160);text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="73" height="92" id="m_1685743965680930810_x0000_i1025" src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wRMgBgcdZCqTw68Gg6ihENvW6_y8dGBqYvnJwiaIyu6LO5a7IJ-cljKsueIE5uxXbT6s9MN5hE2lGU"></span><span style="color:rgb(102,127,160);text-decoration:none"> <br></span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><b><span style="color:rgb(96,110,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">David Boundy </span></b><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">| Partner <span style="background:white">| </span>Potomac Law Group, PLLC</span><span style="color:rgb(50,49,48);font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;text-align:start"><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459</span><span style="color:rgb(50,49,48);font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Tel (646) 472-9737 </span><span style="color:gray;font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">|</span><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> Fax: (202) 318-7707</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><u><span style="color:rgb(12,100,192);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" title="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(254,70,165)">dboundy@potomaclaw.com</span></a></span></u><span style="color:rgb(12,100,192);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"> </span><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">| <u><a href="http://www.potomaclaw.com" title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:rgb(12,100,192)">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></span><span style="color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470" target="_blank">Articles at http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</a><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext"><br></span></a></span></p>
<p style="margin:0in"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">Click here to add me to your contacts.</span></a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
-- <br>
Patentpractice mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">Patentpractice@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/patentpractice_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div>