<div dir="ltr"><div>The $200 micro-entity discount for fees <i><b>to the RO</b></i> is just not worth it to deal with all the the PTO's stupid software and all unpredictable ways the US Patent Office finds to screw things up. (Search fee, yes. RO fee heck no.)</div><div><br></div><div>Is there a plausible reason to file in RO/US other than foreign filing license issues? And those can be dealt with via a provisional that overlaps in time with getting your formal drawings?<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 11:01\u202fAM Andrew Berks via Pct <<a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">pct@oppedahl-lists.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>This is in response to Carl Oppedahl's suggestion that my withdrawn case problem may have been averted if I filed this case at the RO/IB with ePCT. I didn't do that - I filed at the RO/US with an ePCT zip file. </div><div><br></div><div>I had a problem earlier this year in another case filed at the RO/IB and electing the ISA/US. First of all, I frequently recommend the ISA/US with small entity clients because the search fee is lower with small entity prices. The problem was that the ISA/US made a unity of invention objection and issued an invitation to pay an additional search fee. The client was OK with this, but this case did not appear on Patent Center/EFSweb/Private PAIR - because it was filed at RO/IB. We had to pay the fee with a credit card form that was faxed, which is really ridiculous. Putting full credit card info on a paper and faxing it is not secure. The fee payment form was clearly marked with what the money was for - the additional search fees. </div><div><br></div><div>But the people who do the searching didn't get the message that the additional fees were paid and issued the WOSA without searching the second invention. Bottom line - this bad WOSA was issued in March 2023 and as of today (Nov. 21, 2023) this situation is still not resolved. </div><div><br></div><div>So now I am back to filing the ePCT zip files at the US/RO if we are going to use the ISA/US. </div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Andrew H. Berks, Ph.D., J.D.</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Partner, Fresh IP PLC</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">New York, New York 10004 (US)</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222"><a href="mailto:andrew@freship.com" target="_blank">andrew@freship.com</a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Voice/text: +1-845-558-7245<a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Toll free: +1-866-913-3499<a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Mailing address: 11710 Plaza America Drive Suite 2000, Reston, VA 20190 (US)</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://freship.com/" target="_blank">freship.com</a>, <a href="https://berksiplaw.com/" target="_blank">berksiplaw.com</a> <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyberks/" target="_blank">LinkedIn </a></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Carl Oppedahl</strong> <span dir="auto"><<a href="mailto:carl@oppedahl.com" target="_blank">carl@oppedahl.com</a>></span><br>Date: Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 9:19\u202fPM<br>Subject: Re: [Pct] PCT Procedure Warning - I learned the hard way<br>To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <<a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">pct@oppedahl-lists.com</a>><br></div><br><br><u></u>
<div>
<p>I bet this would never have gone wrong if the case had been filed
at the RO/IB via ePCT.<br>
</p>
<div>On 11/17/2023 7:56 PM, Andrew Berks via
Pct wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">I just found out the hard way that if a Receiving
Office (RO) issues a declaration under PCT Art. 14(3) that a
PCT application is "considered withdrawn" for insufficient
payment of fees, there is no way to revive the case. Nothing
in the PCT Treaty or Rules allows a reversal of this
declaration. See Rule 16bis.1(c).<br>
...<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222"><br></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Andrew H. Berks, Ph.D., J.D.</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Partner, Fresh IP PLC</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">New York, New York 10004 (US)</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222"><a href="mailto:andrew@freship.com" target="_blank">andrew@freship.com</a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Voice/text: +1-845-558-7245<a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18455587245" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 845-558-7245 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Toll free: +1-866-913-3499<a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://voice.google.com/calls?a=nc,%2B18669133499" rel="noopener" title="Call +1 866-913-3499 via Google Voice" target="_blank"></a></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#222222">Mailing address: 11710 Plaza America Drive Suite 2000, Reston, VA 20190 (US)</font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://freship.com" target="_blank">freship.com</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">, </span><a href="https://berksiplaw.com" target="_blank">berksiplaw.com</a><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)"> </span><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/andyberks/" target="_blank">LinkedIn </a><br></p></div></div></div><p></p>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
</div>
-- <br>
Pct mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Pct@oppedahl-lists.com" target="_blank">Pct@oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
<a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span><span><span><span><span><p style="margin:0px 0px 10px;color:rgb(102,127,160);font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif,Arial;font-size:12px"><a border="0" href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy" style="color:rgb(102,127,160);text-decoration:none;outline:none;background:transparent 0px 0px" target="_blank"><img alt="" src="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg" width="73" height="92"> <br></a></p></span></span></span></span></span><p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(50,49,48);font-weight:normal;text-align:start;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px">
<b><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(96,110,154)">David Boundy </span></b><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">| Partner </span><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)"><span style="margin:0px;background-color:white;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">|</span><span style="margin:0px;background-color:white"><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></span></span><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">Potomac Law
Group, PLLC</span></p>
<p style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;color:rgb(50,49,48);font-weight:normal;text-align:start;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:15px">
<span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(124,134,154)">P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459</span></p>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:13.3333px;color:black;text-align:left">
<font size="2" face="Helvetica" color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:13.3333px;color:black">
<font size="2" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont" color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px"></span></font></div>
<div style="margin:0px;font-family:Tahoma,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:13px;color:black">
<font size="2" face="Helvetica" color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont"></span></font></div>
<p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont">
<span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:10pt"></span></p>
<font style="font-size:13.3333px;color:black;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,Helvetica,EmojiFont,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols"><span style="margin:0px"></span></font>
<p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont">
<span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"></span><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Helvetica" color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"><span style="margin:0px">Tel
(646)</span><span style="margin:0px"> 472-9737</span></span><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"> </span></span></font><font size="2" face="Helvetica" color="gray"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt">|</span></font><font size="2" face="Helvetica" color="#7C869A"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"> Fax:
(202) 318-7707</span></font></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;color:rgb(124,134,154);font-size:13px;font-family:Helvetica,serif,EmojiFont">
<span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt;color:rgb(12,100,192)"><u><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" title="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com" style="color:rgb(254,70,165)" target="_blank">dboundy@potomaclaw.com</a></u> </span></span><span style="margin:0px;color:gray"><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:12pt"><u><span style="margin:0px;font-size:10pt"></span></u></span></span><span style="margin:0px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,serif,EmojiFont;font-size:10pt">| </span><u style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://www.potomaclaw.com" rel="noopener noreferrer" title="http://www.potomaclaw.com/" style="margin:0px" target="_blank"><span style="margin:0px;color:rgb(12,100,192)">www.potomaclaw.com</span></a></u></p><span><span><span><span><span><span><span><font size="2">
<p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none">
</span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470" target="_blank">Articles at http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</a><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext"><br></span></a></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt"><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext">Click here to add me to your
contacts.</span></a></p></font></span></span></span></span></span><p style="margin:0px 0px 10px;color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:"Open Sans",sans-serif,Arial;font-size:14px"><span style="font-weight:700"></span></p></span></span><font size="1"><span style="line-height:150%;font-family:"Times New Roman""></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span><font size="1"><span style="line-height:150%;font-family:"Times New Roman""></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></span><span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"></span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>