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<p class="MsoNormal">Formatting in Word can be easier. If that is the case, I will create or edit in Word, and then copy and paste from Word into an e-mail message body generated by AppColl or a new Outlook message. AppColl defines an e-mail address for each
matter, so I CC the matter-specific mailbox, and the outgoing message gets stored in AppColl, along with other e-mail correspondence. Sometimes, I start by copying the automatically generated text that AppColl proposes, such as the Re: header, into Word or
Outlook for further editing.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">George<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">39 Old Farm Road, Concord, MA 01742-5234<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:George@JakobscheLaw.com"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">George@JakobscheLaw.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> | +1-978-245-8100<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">This e-mail is from George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC, a law firm, and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not
read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment(s). Instead, please notify the sender and delete the message and the attachment(s). Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="color:black">Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Damon Neagle via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 12:15</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black">PM<br>
<b>To: </b>pct@oppedahl-lists.com <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Damon Neagle <damonneagle@designip.com><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Pct] Pct Digest, Vol 4, Issue 10<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Carl:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Interesting – we were just discussing this issue in our firm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">We currently put the substance of our reporting letters in the body of emails. The primary reason is convenience of reading. Many of our clients are busy executives
or in-house attorneys and it's much less convenient for them to digest the email if they have to open a PDF. This is particularly true when reviewing an email on a mobile phone. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">The biggest downside for us is that formatting & content options can sometimes be more limited when generating a form/automated email vs. a Word document. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Damon A. Neagle</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Design
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<i>A Professional Corporation</i></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">direct: 610.395.8005 | main: 610.395.4900 | web:
</span><a href="http://www.designip.com/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">www.designip.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of pct-request@oppedahl-lists.com
<pct-request@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 15, 2024 12:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> pct@oppedahl-lists.com <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Pct Digest, Vol 4, Issue 10</span> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Send Pct mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs.<br>
email body (Carl Oppedahl)<br>
2. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (David Boundy)<br>
3. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Orvis)<br>
4. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (George Jakobsche)<br>
5. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Allen Richter (allenr@richterpatent.com))<br>
6. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Timothy Snowden)<br>
7. naming the applicant at national/regional entry (Carl Oppedahl)<br>
8. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Carl Oppedahl)<br>
9. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Gerry Peters)<br>
10. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Krista Jacobsen)<br>
11. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Gerry Peters)<br>
12. Re: Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body (Timothy Snowden)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 12:09:12 -0700<br>
From: Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com><br>
To: for users of the Patent Cooperation Treaty<br>
<pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF<br>
vs. email body<br>
Message-ID: <3e88d6e3-6ec2-4b30-9058-affdcafc3351@oppedahl.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi listmates,<br>
<br>
We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications<br>
/ reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to<br>
correspondence such as<br>
<br>
* Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
* Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
* Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to<br>
an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
* Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
* Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
<br>
The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
<br>
* A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete<br>
?document?.<br>
* A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an<br>
impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
* A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required<br>
to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the<br>
correspondence.<br>
* An email-body letter conveniently remains available below<br>
replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
* When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services<br>
rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids<br>
potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
<br>
I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable<br>
to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF<br>
attachment to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for<br>
different types of correspondence. I?d also be interested to know what<br>
you do in reality!<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 14:20:53 -0500<br>
From: David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAJwugqECJ5Ui5k-W4xxrs0Zh0nA0u40MGs+fNEWxr6uQJFje9A@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The list of criteria basically provides the answer -- which characteristic<br>
is important to what letter?<br>
<br>
I send engagement letters as PDFs (the formality is essential), bills as<br>
PDFs (that's what my firm's billing system generates), agendas for monthly<br>
meeting in PDF (the formality is psychologically useful) (but during the<br>
phone call, I take notes in the Word doc). Routine correspondence (such<br>
as reporting either incoming our outgoing correspondence, requesting<br>
instrutions for either reply or for 1-year filing deadline) as email body.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:09?PM Carl Oppedahl via Pct <<br>
pct@oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
> A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
><br>
><br>
> Hi listmates,<br>
><br>
> We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications /<br>
> reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to correspondence<br>
> such as<br>
><br>
> - Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
> - Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
> - Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to<br>
> an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
> - Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
> - Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
><br>
> - A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete<br>
> ?document?.<br>
> - A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an<br>
> impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
> - A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required<br>
> to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the<br>
> correspondence.<br>
> - An email-body letter conveniently remains available below<br>
> replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
> - When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services<br>
> rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids<br>
> potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable<br>
> to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF attachment<br>
> to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for different<br>
> types of correspondence. I?d also be interested to know what you do in<br>
> reality!<br>
> --<br>
> Pct mailing list<br>
> Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
> </span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
<</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
*David Boundy *| Partner | Potomac Law Group, PLLC<br>
<br>
P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459<br>
<br>
Tel (646) 472-9737 | Fax: (202) 318-7707<br>
<br>
*dboundy@potomaclaw.com <dboundy@potomaclaw.com>* | *www.potomaclaw.com<br>
<</span><a href="http://www.potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://www.potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">>*<br>
<br>
Articles at </span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <</span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<</span><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
Click here to add me to your contacts.<br>
<</span><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:24:07 -0500 (EST)<br>
From: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID: <26097b95-6b42-49d9-9547-04196115ccbf@gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The overwhelming amount?of day-to-day correspondence should?be in an email. We are here to serve, and you risk annoying your clients by making them click to open a pdf with something that could have more efficiently been communicated in the body of the email.
Some foreign associate emails come to mind. Ever get an email with an attachment that does not open right on the phone?that you spend time trying to view, only to later remember to open the pdf of a one page letter when at a PC to read a one sentence update:
"The Honorable hearing officer cancelled the hearing the nth time and will reschedule"?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:22?PM David Boundy via Pct <pct[pct@oppedahl-lists.com]@oppedahl-lists.com[pct@oppedahl-lists.com]> wrote:<br>
> The list of criteria basically provides the answer -- which characteristic is important to what letter?<br>
><br>
> I send engagement letters as PDFs (the formality is essential), bills as PDFs (that's what my firm's billing system generates), agendas for monthly meeting in PDF (the formality is psychologically useful) (but during the phone call, I take notes in the Word
doc).?? Routine correspondence (such as reporting either incoming our outgoing correspondence, requesting instrutions for either reply or for 1-year filing deadline) as email body.<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:09?PM Carl Oppedahl via Pct <pct[pct@oppedahl-lists.com]@oppedahl-lists.com[pct@oppedahl-lists.com]> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Hi listmates,<br>
>><br>
>> We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications / reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to correspondence such as<br>
>><br>
>> * Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
>> * Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
>> * Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
>> * Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
>> * Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
>> ?<br>
>><br>
>> The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
>><br>
>> * A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete ?document?.<br>
>> * A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
>> * A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the correspondence.<br>
>> * An email-body letter conveniently remains available below replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
>> * When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
>> ?<br>
>><br>
>> I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF attachment to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for different types of correspondence. I?d also
be interested to know what you do in reality!<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Pct mailing list<br>
>> Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
>> </span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> [</span><a href="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">][Image
link][</span><a href="https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg%5d%5bhttps:/www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://ci3.googleusercontent.com/mail-sig/AIorK4wHwYjQzxHxAaQrLX1XiLlcQpAZ83upYUjMvJLtwefIP8dBVb6tJA9Yn2W4bPdW2A18c1EIEHg][https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">]?
? ?[</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">]<br>
><br>
> *David Boundy?*| Partner?|?Potomac?Law Group, PLLC<br>
> P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA ?02459<br>
> Tel (646)?472-9737?|?Fax: (202) 318-7707<br>
> _dboundy[dboundy@potomaclaw.com]__@potomaclaw.com[dboundy@potomaclaw.com]_?|?_www.potomaclaw.com[http://www.potomaclaw.com]_<br>
> Articles at </span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://ssrn.com/author=2936470</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
> Click here to add me to your contacts.[</span><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">]<br>
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<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 20:39:56 +0000<br>
From: George Jakobsche <george@jakobschelaw.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com>, David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<SA3PR10MB70448912EEC993583AA1F755A24E2@SA3PR10MB7044.namprd10.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Agreed. I have two clients that explicitly instructed me to include reports in the bodies of e-mail messages, and not to attach reporting letters to e-mail messages.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
George<br>
George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC<br>
39 Old Farm Road, Concord, MA 01742-5234<br>
George@JakobscheLaw.com<mailto:George@JakobscheLaw.com> | +1-978-245-8100<br>
<br>
This e-mail is from George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC, a law firm, and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment(s). Instead, please notify
the sender and delete the message and the attachment(s). Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Orvis via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:28?PM<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com>, David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
The overwhelming amount of day-to-day correspondence should be in an email. We are here to serve, and you risk annoying your clients by making them click to open a pdf with something that could have more efficiently been communicated in the body of the email.
Some foreign associate emails come to mind. Ever get an email with an attachment that does not open right on the phone that you spend time trying to view, only to later remember to open the pdf of a one page letter when at a PC to read a one sentence update:
"The Honorable hearing officer cancelled the hearing the nth time and will reschedule"?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:22?PM David Boundy via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
The list of criteria basically provides the answer -- which characteristic is important to what letter?<br>
<br>
I send engagement letters as PDFs (the formality is essential), bills as PDFs (that's what my firm's billing system generates), agendas for monthly meeting in PDF (the formality is psychologically useful) (but during the phone call, I take notes in the Word
doc). Routine correspondence (such as reporting either incoming our outgoing correspondence, requesting instrutions for either reply or for 1-year filing deadline) as email body.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:09?PM Carl Oppedahl via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
<br>
A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi listmates,<br>
<br>
We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications / reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to correspondence such as<br>
<br>
* Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
* Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
* Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
* Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
* Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
<br>
<br>
The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
<br>
* A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete ?document?.<br>
* A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
* A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the correspondence.<br>
* An email-body letter conveniently remains available below replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
* When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
<br>
<br>
I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF attachment to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for different types of correspondence. I?d also be
interested to know what you do in reality!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Pct mailing list<br>
Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:Pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
</span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[Image removed by sender.]<</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">> <</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
David Boundy | Partner | Potomac Law Group, PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459<br>
Tel (646) 472-9737 | Fax: (202) 318-7707<br>
dboundy<</span><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com%3e@potomaclaw.com%3cmailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com>@potomaclaw.com<mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">> |
www.potomaclaw.com<</span><a href="http://www.potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://www.potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
Articles at </span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470%3chttp:/ssrn.com/author=2936470%3e"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://ssrn.com/author=2936470<http://ssrn.com/author=2936470></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Click here to add me to your contacts.<</span><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 20:55:58 +0000<br>
From: "Allen Richter (allenr@richterpatent.com)"<br>
<allenr@richterpatent.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: George Jakobsche <george@jakobschelaw.com>, David Boundy<br>
<DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<PA4PR06MB7294FCB22DD1F559B42F4D97C44E2@PA4PR06MB7294.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
I prefer messages in the email body. I never quite understood the point of attaching PDFs to report PTO correspondence.<br>
The most annoying PDF reporting letters are those that are not OCR-ed/searchable.<br>
And by replacing PDF reporting letter attachments with ?email-body reporting?, still enough attachments remain that need to be handled, sorted and analyzed.<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of George Jakobsche via Pct<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 February 2024 22:40<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: George Jakobsche <george@jakobschelaw.com>; David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
<br>
Agreed. I have two clients that explicitly instructed me to include reports in the bodies of e-mail messages, and not to attach reporting letters to e-mail messages.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
George<br>
George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC<br>
39 Old Farm Road, Concord, MA 01742-5234<br>
George@JakobscheLaw.com<mailto:George@JakobscheLaw.com> | +1-978-245-8100<br>
<br>
This e-mail is from George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC, a law firm, and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment(s). Instead, please notify
the sender and delete the message and the attachment(s). Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>> on behalf of Orvis via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>><br>
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:28?PM<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>><br>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com<mailto:orvispc@gmail.com>>, David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com<mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com>><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
The overwhelming amount of day-to-day correspondence should be in an email. We are here to serve, and you risk annoying your clients by making them click to open a pdf with something that could have more efficiently been communicated in the body of the email.
Some foreign associate emails come to mind. Ever get an email with an attachment that does not open right on the phone that you spend time trying to view, only to later remember to open the pdf of a one page letter when at a PC to read a one sentence update:
"The Honorable hearing officer cancelled the hearing the nth time and will reschedule"?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:22?PM David Boundy via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
The list of criteria basically provides the answer -- which characteristic is important to what letter?<br>
<br>
I send engagement letters as PDFs (the formality is essential), bills as PDFs (that's what my firm's billing system generates), agendas for monthly meeting in PDF (the formality is psychologically useful) (but during the phone call, I take notes in the Word
doc). Routine correspondence (such as reporting either incoming our outgoing correspondence, requesting instrutions for either reply or for 1-year filing deadline) as email body.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:09?PM Carl Oppedahl via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
<br>
A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi listmates,<br>
<br>
We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications / reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to correspondence such as<br>
<br>
* Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
* Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
* Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
* Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
* Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
<br>
<br>
The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
<br>
* A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete ?document?.<br>
* A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
* A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the correspondence.<br>
* An email-body letter conveniently remains available below replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
* When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
<br>
<br>
I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF attachment to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for different types of correspondence. I?d also be
interested to know what you do in reality!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Pct mailing list<br>
Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:Pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
</span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
[Image removed by sender.]<</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">> <</span><a href="https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.iam-media.com/strategy300/individuals/david-boundy</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
David Boundy | Partner | Potomac Law Group, PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459<br>
Tel (646) 472-9737 | Fax: (202) 318-7707<br>
dboundy<</span><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com%3e@potomaclaw.com%3cmailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com>@potomaclaw.com<mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">> |
www.potomaclaw.com<</span><a href="http://www.potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://www.potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
Articles at </span><a href="http://ssrn.com/author=2936470%3chttp:/ssrn.com/author=2936470%3e"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://ssrn.com/author=2936470<http://ssrn.com/author=2936470></span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Click here to add me to your contacts.<</span><a href="https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">https://www.keynect.us/requestCardAccess/USA500DBOUN?</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">><br>
<br>
--<br>
Pct mailing list<br>
Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:Pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
</span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 21:08:51 +0000<br>
From: Timothy Snowden <Timothy@thompsonpatentlaw.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<DM8PR16MB4358E862F164F7F515C844A9B34E2@DM8PR16MB4358.namprd16.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Another vote for email body reporting. There are some very good foreign associates that still do all their reporting in a separate letter. I've found that a) it takes me and our docketing staff more time, b) it is more frequent for a possible action item to
be missed / delayed, c) it takes up more file storage. I have found no positives. We archive the email anyway. If I need it as a document I print to PDF.<br>
That is my experience ? and I'm looking for details. For the bulk of clients ? whether they are executives or small business owners ? a large percentage don't even seem to open attachments reliably ? they expect the action item to be succinctly summarized in
the email body.<br>
<br>
My guess is that there are some docketing systems being used that generate nice templates but not so much emails? We have at least as many email templates in AppColl as we have document templates, and we always try to put the action item in the email.<br>
<br>
I will attach search results or detailed reports as attachments, but I always put a brief exec summary and action item in the email.<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Allen Richter (allenr--- via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 2:55 PM<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Allen Richter (allenr@richterpatent.com) <allenr@richterpatent.com>; David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
<br>
<br>
I prefer messages in the email body. I never quite understood the point of attaching PDFs to report PTO correspondence.<br>
<br>
The most annoying PDF reporting letters are those that are not OCR-ed/searchable.<br>
<br>
And by replacing PDF reporting letter attachments with ?email-body reporting?, still enough attachments remain that need to be handled, sorted and analyzed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of George Jakobsche via Pct<br>
Sent: Wednesday, 14 February 2024 22:40<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: George Jakobsche <george@jakobschelaw.com>; David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Agreed. I have two clients that explicitly instructed me to include reports in the bodies of e-mail messages, and not to attach reporting letters to e-mail messages.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
George<br>
<br>
George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC<br>
<br>
39 Old Farm Road, Concord, MA 01742-5234<br>
<br>
George@JakobscheLaw.com<mailto:George@JakobscheLaw.com> | +1-978-245-8100<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This e-mail is from George Jakobsche Patent Counsel PLLC, a law firm, and it may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, do not read, copy, or distribute this message or any attachment(s). Instead, please notify
the sender and delete the message and the attachment(s). Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>> on behalf of Orvis via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>><br>
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 3:28?PM<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>><br>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc@gmail.com<mailto:orvispc@gmail.com>>, David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com<mailto:DavidBoundyEsq@gmail.com>><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
<br>
The overwhelming amount of day-to-day correspondence should be in an email. We are here to serve, and you risk annoying your clients by making them click to open a pdf with something that could have more efficiently been communicated in the body of the email.
Some foreign associate emails come to mind. Ever get an email with an attachment that does not open right on the phone that you spend time trying to view, only to later remember to open the pdf of a one page letter when at a PC to read a one sentence update:
"The Honorable hearing officer cancelled the hearing the nth time and will reschedule"?<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:22?PM David Boundy via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
<br>
The list of criteria basically provides the answer -- which characteristic is important to what letter?<br>
<br>
I send engagement letters as PDFs (the formality is essential), bills as PDFs (that's what my firm's billing system generates), agendas for monthly meeting in PDF (the formality is psychologically useful) (but during the phone call, I take notes in the Word
doc). Routine correspondence (such as reporting either incoming our outgoing correspondence, requesting instrutions for either reply or for 1-year filing deadline) as email body.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 2:09?PM Carl Oppedahl via Pct <pct<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:<br>
<br>
A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi listmates,<br>
<br>
We are currently reconsidering the manner in which we send notifications / reporting correspondence to our clients. I?m referring to correspondence such as<br>
<br>
* Reporting filing of a patent application<br>
* Reporting official communication from a patent office<br>
* Reporting an action taken at a patent office, such as responding to an Office Action or filing an IDS<br>
* Notification of upcoming 1-year Paris Convention deadline<br>
* Notification of upcoming 30-month PCT national phase deadline<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The factors currently affecting our decision include:<br>
<br>
* A PDF letter at least seems more fixed/permanent, and is a discrete ?document?.<br>
* A PDF letter is more aesthetically pleasing, and can give an impression of formality and/or professionalism.<br>
* A PDF letter makes it frustrating for the recipient who is required to take the extra step of opening an attachment in order to read the correspondence.<br>
* An email-body letter conveniently remains available below replies/reminders sent in response to the original correspondence.<br>
* When accompanying the correspondence with a bill for services rendered, sending the correspondence as an email-body letter avoids potential confusion from multiple/mixture of attachments.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I?d be very interested to hear your thoughts on whether it is preferable to send such correspondence in the body of an email, or as a PDF attachment to an email. Perhaps you even have different preferences for different types of correspondence. I?d also be
interested to know what you do in reality!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Pct mailing list<br>
Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:Pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
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<br>
<br>
--<br>
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<br>
David Boundy | Partner | Potomac Law Group, PLLC<br>
P.O. Box 590638, Newton, MA 02459<br>
Tel (646) 472-9737 | Fax: (202) 318-7707<br>
dboundy<</span><a href="mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com%3e@potomaclaw.com%3cmailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com>@potomaclaw.com<mailto:dboundy@potomaclaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt">> |
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Message: 7<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 15:01:52 -0700<br>
From: Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com><br>
To: for users of the Patent Cooperation Treaty<br>
<pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: [Pct] naming the applicant at national/regional entry<br>
Message-ID: <1cb3a901-3b04-4688-a614-91e06f96587e@oppedahl.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
A listserv member asks to post anonymously ...<br>
<br>
I have a question for the group about naming the applicant at<br>
national/regional entry.<br>
<br>
Here?s the fact pattern:<br>
<br>
1. Priority Application is filed in name of Company A and Company B.<br>
<br>
2. PCT Application filed in name of Company A and Company B.<br>
<br>
3. Agreement between company dated prior to PCT Application filing date<br>
states that PCT application shall be filed in the name of Company B<br>
only.<br>
<br>
4. Same Agreement between Company A and Company B states that<br>
national/regional stage applications are to be filed in the name of<br>
Company B; Company B will own all applications/issued patents.<br>
<br>
5. Company B converted from a CORP to an LLC and changed its name to<br>
Company B LLC.<br>
<br>
6. Company B LLC assigned its rights to Company C.<br>
<br>
7. So, it seems that Company A should not have been an Applicant on the<br>
PCT Application at all.<br>
<br>
I would like to file all national/regional stage applications in the<br>
name of Company C.<br>
<br>
Can this be done?<br>
<br>
If so, how best do I accomplish this task?<br>
<br>
Please consider the situation*s* where the Agreement between Company A<br>
and Company B is (1) has a clear assignment of priority rights under<br>
Paris, or (2) is completely silent on priority rights,.<br>
<br>
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Message: 8<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 17:35:25 -0700<br>
From: Carl Oppedahl <carl@oppedahl.com><br>
To: For users of the PCT and "ePCT." This is not for laypersons to<br>
seek legal "advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID: <bb33a424-425f-44a4-a808-b86a3d49b93a@oppedahl.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
On 2/14/2024 2:08 PM, Timothy Snowden via Pct wrote:<br>
> Another vote for email body reporting. There are some very good<br>
> foreign associates that still do all their reporting in a separate<br>
> letter. I've found that a) it takes me and our docketing staff more<br>
> time, b) it is more frequent for a possible action item to be missed /<br>
> delayed, c) it takes up more file storage. I have found no positives.<br>
<br>
Yes the foreign agents who send a one-line email that says please see<br>
attached (PDF) letter of instructions.?? It always makes lots and lots<br>
of extra work for me.? Invariably what happens is I need to reply to it,<br>
and it says five or a dozen things in the PDF letter, each of which<br>
would benefit from my interleaved responses.?? And the PDF letter is<br>
sometimes an image scan, because (I guess) they feel it is important to<br>
capture the blue-ink physical signature.<br>
<br>
<br>
So when the time comes for me to reply, with my interleaved<br>
topic-specific responses, I have to convert the PDF letter into ordinary<br>
text that shows up as "quoted" text in the body of my response.? And I<br>
then interject my topic-specific responses.<br>
<br>
<br>
If the instructions from foreign counsel had been /*in the body of*/<br>
their email to me, the response from me might have taken five or ten<br>
minutes.? Instead the response from me takes twenty or thirty minutes.<br>
<br>
<br>
The extra time does find its way into the invoices that I send to those<br>
foreign firms.? So I don't actually lose money on that time burden.<br>
<br>
But to take Timothy's point, yes the extra-steps-required process of<br>
dealing with the PDF instructions does lead to extra opportunities for<br>
me to miss something.? Like the little place, tucked away in some corner<br>
of the PDF instructions letter, where they quietly mention that the<br>
applicant is or is not a small entity.? Or whatever.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Message: 9<br>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 09:57:39 +0900<br>
From: Gerry Peters <gerrypeters@jttpatent.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID: <20240215095739.b23d8da7dea86145aca33b49@jttpatent.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
I encourage clients to keep privileged/confidential communications out<br>
of email and to correspond instead via secure server, for which I<br>
find doc or txt files to be far more convenient than pdf. I also prefer<br>
having a shared folder hierarchy that tracks case history rather than<br>
having to hunt for the latest version of a draft which may be buried in<br>
an email attachment. I note that large companies that have experience<br>
with US discovery procedures also tend to use a similar system and<br>
avoid putting sensitive content in email.<br>
---Gerry<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 10<br>
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 18:16:22 -0800<br>
From: Krista Jacobsen <krista@jacobseniplaw.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAN7twq1dzdqBEjN_Zrps1xOxEDPqTLHhObBObjRxhRwEbXd-5w@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
On the other hand, when information is transmitted via e-mail, there is<br>
clear evidence of a communication between attorney and client, and you can<br>
see exactly what was communicated. Although an adversary might argue that<br>
the communication was not privileged because it wasn't confidential (e.g.,<br>
maybe someone was cc'd who shouldn't have been cc'd) and/or wasn't made for<br>
the purpose of giving or seeking legal advice (the more likely argument,<br>
IMO), at least the "communication from/to attorney to/from client" part of<br>
attorney-client privilege is easy to prove.<br>
<br>
When using a secure server, how do you prove that there was in fact a<br>
communication between attorney and client, and what was communicated? I<br>
wouldn't think mere client access to the server where drafts are kept would<br>
be enough. (If it were, you could shield grandma's secret meatloaf recipe<br>
from discovery simply by saving a copy to your secure server.) Do you track<br>
logins and file access in order to be able to prove that there was<br>
communication of a particular document?<br>
<br>
Maybe it is well known how to do this, and I'm just not up on it. But it<br>
seems like generating a privilege log would be a lot more work and also<br>
would be more likely to be challenged.<br>
<br>
I am also on Team No Attachments except for things like engagement letters,<br>
termination letters, invoices, etc.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Krista<br>
<br>
------------------------------------------<br>
Krista S. Jacobsen<br>
Attorney and Counselor at Law<br>
Jacobsen IP Law<br>
krista@jacobseniplaw.com<br>
T: 408.455.5539<br>
</span><a href="http://www.jacobseniplaw.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">www.jacobseniplaw.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 5:01?PM Gerry Peters via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> I encourage clients to keep privileged/confidential communications out<br>
> of email and to correspond instead via secure server, for which I<br>
> find doc or txt files to be far more convenient than pdf. I also prefer<br>
> having a shared folder hierarchy that tracks case history rather than<br>
> having to hunt for the latest version of a draft which may be buried in<br>
> an email attachment. I note that large companies that have experience<br>
> with US discovery procedures also tend to use a similar system and<br>
> avoid putting sensitive content in email.<br>
> ---Gerry<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Pct mailing list<br>
> Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
> </span><a href="http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/pct_oppedahl-lists.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
><br>
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Message: 11<br>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 11:58:26 +0900<br>
From: Gerry Peters <gerrypeters@jttpatent.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID: <20240215115826.63584079abf58cfab61633d6@jttpatent.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII<br>
<br>
Those are good points, Krista, but I think there is at least one case<br>
(federal case against Snowden's email provider) in which US government<br>
took position that there can be no expectation of privacy where 3rd<br>
party service such as email or fax service is used (ridiculous<br>
position but it is what it is). Conversely, where US government<br>
requires secrecy, I remember seeing regulations specifying exactly what<br>
sort of end-to-end encryption is sufficient (3rd party service provider<br>
can't have ability to decrypt). While you make a good point about<br>
timestamps and recordkeeping if your goal is to persuade a court your<br>
client is entitled to privilege, if possession is 9/10's of the law<br>
and privilege belongs to the client, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling<br>
to know that there is no 3rd party that can be pressured to betray<br>
its users. Also, besides privilege, there is the issue of keeping<br>
material secret until a foreign filing license has issued, and for<br>
that I think plaintext email or any email that can be decrypted by a<br>
3rd party is probably insufficient where communications are happening<br>
internationally or with potential access by noncitizens.<br>
---Gerry<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 12<br>
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 14:29:26 +0000<br>
From: Timothy Snowden <Timothy@thompsonpatentlaw.com><br>
To: "For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek<br>
legal advice." <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients -<br>
PDF vs. email body<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<DM8PR16MB4358C108AEA94E3ABFA91996B34D2@DM8PR16MB4358.namprd16.prod.outlook.com><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
But most secure servers are themselves third party services? Most fileservers are hosted outside of our direct and sole control.<br>
<br>
Also, there is secure email (Proton is a favorite among some of our software clients) and/or other messaging services (like Signal). Practically, they would be as secure as a secure server. I'm guessing that if a party wants to make the argument that using
3rd party services waives your expectation of privacy, then the cat's out of the bag (docketing, remote file server, virtual server, AWS / Azure / Google cloud).<br>
<br>
Just my barely-connected thoughts!<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Gerry Peters via Pct <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 8:58 PM<br>
To: For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
Cc: Gerry Peters <gerrypeters@jttpatent.com><br>
Subject: Re: [Pct] Notification/reporting correspondence to clients - PDF vs. email body<br>
<br>
Those are good points, Krista, but I think there is at least one case<br>
(federal case against Snowden's email provider) in which US government<br>
took position that there can be no expectation of privacy where 3rd<br>
party service such as email or fax service is used (ridiculous<br>
position but it is what it is). Conversely, where US government<br>
requires secrecy, I remember seeing regulations specifying exactly what<br>
sort of end-to-end encryption is sufficient (3rd party service provider<br>
can't have ability to decrypt). While you make a good point about<br>
timestamps and recordkeeping if your goal is to persuade a court your<br>
client is entitled to privilege, if possession is 9/10's of the law<br>
and privilege belongs to the client, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling<br>
to know that there is no 3rd party that can be pressured to betray<br>
its users. Also, besides privilege, there is the issue of keeping<br>
material secret until a foreign filing license has issued, and for<br>
that I think plaintext email or any email that can be decrypted by a<br>
3rd party is probably insufficient where communications are happening<br>
internationally or with potential access by noncitizens.<br>
---Gerry<br>
<br>
--<br>
Pct mailing list<br>
Pct@oppedahl-lists.com<br>
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End of Pct Digest, Vol 4, Issue 10<br>
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