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<div class="elementToProof" style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Agreed in general Carl.</div>
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Where I've found a notable exception to that best practice is when you're dealing with security review (or strangeness like Katherine mentioned) that you have no control over and you can't rely on prompt USPTO action to allow you to use DAS within the 4-and-16
month date.</div>
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For example, in a case we just completed, we had filed several provisional applications. We filed RO/US (the client added a few last minute features and the application could be considered to have potential security implications), of course using ePCT.
<i>Some </i>of the provisionals had already cleared security review and were available in DAS, but one in particular had not. We could have survived without it because of purposely duplicative filings, but we would rather have it in the priority chain.</div>
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What I was told by PCT help desk at IB as I followed up with USPTO and IB about the priority copies is that – when the RO is the office of first filing, and you've checked the box for the RO to send the certified copy to the IB,
<b><i>then the IB treats it as if you provided the certified copy when you filed</i></b>, even if the RO drags their feet in actually sending the physical/digital copy to the IB. Of course, you still have to get it by the 30 month deadline, but that does give
you more time to push the USPTO (in this case whatever defense organization had put a review hold on it).</div>
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I<span style="font-size: 16px;"> asked the IB if we couldn't just transmit an unofficial copy because we were past the 6 months, and they said we could, but it would not meet the requirement or toll the deadline in any way (as I suspected). I asked the USPTO
if there was a way to get the certified copy since we were past 6 months, and they confirmed what I already was sure of: if there is a security review in place, the USPTO will just ignore any request for a certified copy, no matter how long past 6 months you
are.</span></div>
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In this case, if we'd filed with DAS code, it was not available in DAS, and no guarantee that we could force USPTO to make it available in DAS by the 4-and-16 month date. The IB would have treated it as 'not available' because it was not available in DAS, and
we literally had no way to provide a certified copy. Eventually, the security review was released, the USPTO transmitted the certified copy, and the IB sent out a notice of successful obtention of the certified copies confirming they had been timely received.</div>
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Just wanted to explain why sometimes the RO-forwarding approach may actually be a good idea, especially when you have double-and-triple check reviews already in place for the priority claims prior to filing. </div>
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In this case I asked Katherine in case she had checked the box, in which case she might have some breathing room while she poked and prodded to get things moving.</div>
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Of course, this doesn't change your point, Carl, that in most circumstances, the DAS approach is more reliable. Your procedure below is much appreciated!</div>
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<span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Carl Oppedahl<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 05, 2024 2:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pct] Digitally signed PDF of certified copy of US priority document
</span>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">This is "request the RO to forward" approach not a Best Practice, I suggest.</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">If you do as the poster suggests, you are checking the box that says "the RO is requested to send a certified copy to the IB". And you are filling in some fields in the Request to indicate the application number,
and the two-letter code for the OFF (office of first filing), and the filing date. </p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">But this never gets validated. Suppose you put in an American date instead of a metric date (June 7 instead of July 6)? This will not get caught at filing time, nor will it get caught at Request-preparation
time. Or suppose you mistype the application number? Or you accidentally auto-complete the two-letter code as "UA" instead of "US". Or, worse, the party who filed that provisional told you the application number but they told you wrong?</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">In any these cases, you could end up on the wrong side of the dreaded 4-and-16 date and only then find out that something went wrong.</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Best Practice is to use ePCT to set it up so that the retrieval will happen through DAS. This forces a real-time, instant cross-check of the proposed priority claim information against the actual information
stored in the DAS system, which in turn was automatically cross-checked against the source system (e.g. the USPTO system). Nearly all possible mistakes (including the imagined mistakes listed above) will be checked for in real time during the ePCT validations.</p>
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<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">In this case, Katherine faced the unpleasantness that the party who filed the provisional had failed to make it available to DAS, and she was forced to file form SB39 to commence the painfully slow process within
the USPTO of eventually making the provisional available to DAS. Which, yes, would surely not reach its conclusion until after the PCT application needed to get filed.</p>
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</p>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">So the steps to follow are:</p>
<ul>
<li>set a docket for getting the ECC into the hands of the IB</li><li>given that the priority application is not yet available to DAS, as a place-holder, indicate in the ePCT Request that "applicant will provide".</li><li>get the PCT application filed.</li><li>badger the USPTO (through <a href="mailto:pdx@uspto.gov" id="OWAf3455e09-9b96-8760-d596-b5d4e3a2e6ec" class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated OWAAutoLink">
pdx@uspto.gov</a> as needed) to make the priority application available to DAS</li><li>at some point USPTO will say (probably prematurely) that the priority application is supposedly now available to DAS</li><li>at this point, start doing a "trust but verify" by trying to set up an alert in DAS</li><li>after some days, you will hopefully be able to set up an alert in DAS (the USPTO will eventually actually do what it said it had done some days earlier)<br>
</li><li>dowload and save a Certificate of Availability</li><li>in ePCT, with connection to the subject PCT application, do an "action" for requesting that the IB retrieve the ECC from DAS</li><li>within one business day, the IB will report success at the retrieval through Form PCT/IB/304</li><li>take note that simultaneously, the DAS system will email you to report that the IB successfully retrieved the ECC</li><li>clear the docket for the ECC reaching DAS</li></ul>
<p style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Everyone who is following this discussion of Best Practices for getting an ECC into one's PCT application is invited to register, if they have not already done so, for the upcoming comprehensive, live, in-person
PCT seminars. See <a href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/attend-a-2%c2%bd-day-live-in-person-patent-cooperation-treaty-seminar-in-scenic-summit-county-colorado-2/" id="OWAb423d552-a9ac-409a-fbb9-ccfc92266cb3" class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">
https://blog.oppedahl.com/attend-a-2%c2%bd-day-live-in-person-patent-cooperation-treaty-seminar-in-scenic-summit-county-colorado-2/</a> .</p>
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</p>
<div>On 6/4/2024 9:40 AM, Timothy Snowden via Pct wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Katherine, did you ask the RO/US to provide a copy on the PCT request form (RO/101)? Together with the SB/39, I would think that should take care of getting a certified copy over without this headache on your part. I recently talked to PCT Help Desk (IB) about
it when I was trying to get a provisional released from security review, and they said that if priority app is a US application, and you file request RO/US to provide a certified copy, and as long as the USPTO finally sends over a copy (even after publication)
sometime during the international phase, IB treats it as timely provided within the deadline for providing a certified copy.</div>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><b>From:</b> Pct
<a href="mailto:pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAd4f9fe41-7d44-e64e-9464-1f7df82348b9" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Katherine Koenig via Pct <a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAa08d2866-d53d-4ae7-2514-c90d3636a982" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<pct@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 4, 2024 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> for users of the Patent Cooperation Treaty <a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com" id="OWAd1d9b739-e9e3-2448-becb-ad8b88a834e6" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<pct@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Katherine Koenig <a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" id="OWAb496c078-2e5e-a856-5cb4-35d646bd1e0e" class="x_moz-txt-link-rfc2396E OWAAutoLink">
<katherine@koenigipworks.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pct] Digitally signed PDF of certified copy of US priority document</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">A client filed a provisional pro se and then I came in at the 11<sup>th</sup> hour to file US utility and PCT applications. Access to participating offices was inadvertently
<u>not</u> provided by the client in the provisional application. The day before the provisional expired, I filed a SB/39 form requesting access. That hasn’t yet been processed or approved (currently being escalated, however).</p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;">Since DAS is not (yet) an option, I’m trying to figure out how to get a certified copy of the US provisional to WIPO. I’ve ordered both hard copy and digital PDF copy on CD. However,
when I try to upload the PDF document to ePCT, it’s rejected as not being digitally signed. I called Certified Copy Center and was told that the document is digitally signed until you open the file on the CD. Then the digital signature mysteriously disappears,
which is why it’s rejected by ePCT when I open the file and try to upload it. Instead, we’re supposed to
<i><u>mail the CD</u></i> to WIPO so they can open it and see the signature. Does this make any sense to anyone? Am I missing something about how to upload a certified copy in ePCT as an Action? It can’t be this hard. </p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"> </p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Best regards,</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Katherine</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><i>Registered Patent Attorney</i></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">2208 Mariner Dr.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;">(954) 903-1699</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: blue;"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com" id="OWA8ce7ad91-38e3-e6ed-ca81-786f1b00a5ba" class="x_OWAAutoLink x_moz-txt-link-freetext" style="color: blue; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-family: Corbel, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0in; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif; font-size: 11pt;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"><img id="x_x_Picture_x0020_2" width="153" height="40" style="width: 1.6041in; height: 0.427in; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;" data-outlook-trace="F:2|T:2" src="cid:part1.hSZm2USg.Oynz7GAG@oppedahl.com"></span></p>
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