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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you, Carl! Those comments are very helpful. And Timothy, thank you for pointing out one of the few situations in which using the RO/US may be a good idea…
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">WIPO was incredibly helpful, they emailed me a very detailed explanation of every way to get the priority document to the IB (upload, DAS, mail). I mailed the hard copy of the priority document to them today,
just in case the SB/39 isn’t successful. I also re-ordered another digital copy and will try uploading through ePCT directly from the CD without actually opening the document.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I suppose it’s a good exercise every now and then to be exposed to the landmines as a reminder to do everything possible to avoid them when first filing (although I didn’t file the provisional).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Registered Patent Attorney<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">(954) 903-1699<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"><img border="0" width="154" height="41" style="width:1.6041in;height:.427in" id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01DAB8EB.FF5273F0"></span><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">The information contained in this communication, including any attachments, is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual
or entity named above. If </span></i><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif">you are not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review,
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all paper and electronic copies. Thank you.</span></i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Pct <pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Timothy Snowden via Pct<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 5, 2024 9:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <pct@oppedahl-lists.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Timothy Snowden <Timothy@thompsonpatentlaw.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pct] Digitally signed PDF of certified copy of US priority document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Agreed in general Carl.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Where I've found a notable exception to that best practice is when you're dealing with security review (or strangeness like Katherine mentioned) that you have no control over and
you can't rely on prompt USPTO action to allow you to use DAS within the 4-and-16 month date.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">For example, in a case we just completed, we had filed several provisional applications. We filed RO/US (the client added a few last minute features and the application could be
considered to have potential security implications), of course using ePCT. <i>Some
</i>of the provisionals had already cleared security review and were available in DAS, but one in particular had not. We could have survived without it because of purposely duplicative filings, but we would rather have it in the priority chain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">What I was told by PCT help desk at IB as I followed up with USPTO and IB about the priority copies is that – when the RO is the office of first filing, and you've checked the box
for the RO to send the certified copy to the IB, <b><i>then the IB treats it as if you provided the certified copy when you filed</i></b>, even if the RO drags their feet in actually sending the physical/digital copy to the IB. Of course, you still have to
get it by the 30 month deadline, but that does give you more time to push the USPTO (in this case whatever defense organization had put a review hold on it).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">I asked the IB if we couldn't just transmit an unofficial copy because we were past the 6 months, and they said we could, but it would not meet the requirement or toll the deadline
in any way (as I suspected). I asked the USPTO if there was a way to get the certified copy since we were past 6 months, and they confirmed what I already was sure of: if there is a security review in place, the USPTO will just ignore any request for a certified
copy, no matter how long past 6 months you are.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">In this case, if we'd filed with DAS code, it was not available in DAS, and no guarantee that we could force USPTO to make it available in DAS by the 4-and-16 month date. The IB
would have treated it as 'not available' because it was not available in DAS, and we literally had no way to provide a certified copy. Eventually, the security review was released, the USPTO transmitted the certified copy, and the IB sent out a notice of successful
obtention of the certified copies confirming they had been timely received.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Just wanted to explain why sometimes the RO-forwarding approach may actually be a good idea, especially when you have double-and-triple check reviews already in place for the priority
claims prior to filing. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">In this case I asked Katherine in case she had checked the box, in which case she might have some breathing room while she poked and prodded to get things moving.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Of course, this doesn't change your point, Carl, that in most circumstances, the DAS approach is more reliable. Your procedure below is much appreciated!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Carl Oppedahl<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 05, 2024 2:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> For users of the PCT and ePCT. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Pct] Digitally signed PDF of certified copy of US priority document
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p>This is "request the RO to forward" approach not a Best Practice, I suggest.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>If you do as the poster suggests, you are checking the box that says "the RO is requested to send a certified copy to the IB". And you are filling in some fields in the Request to indicate the application number, and the two-letter code for the OFF (office
of first filing), and the filing date. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>But this never gets validated. Suppose you put in an American date instead of a metric date (June 7 instead of July 6)? This will not get caught at filing time, nor will it get caught at Request-preparation time. Or suppose you mistype the application
number? Or you accidentally auto-complete the two-letter code as "UA" instead of "US". Or, worse, the party who filed that provisional told you the application number but they told you wrong?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>In any these cases, you could end up on the wrong side of the dreaded 4-and-16 date and only then find out that something went wrong.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Best Practice is to use ePCT to set it up so that the retrieval will happen through DAS. This forces a real-time, instant cross-check of the proposed priority claim information against the actual information stored in the DAS system, which in turn was automatically
cross-checked against the source system (e.g. the USPTO system). Nearly all possible mistakes (including the imagined mistakes listed above) will be checked for in real time during the ePCT validations.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>In this case, Katherine faced the unpleasantness that the party who filed the provisional had failed to make it available to DAS, and she was forced to file form SB39 to commence the painfully slow process within the USPTO of eventually making the provisional
available to DAS. Which, yes, would surely not reach its conclusion until after the PCT application needed to get filed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>So the steps to follow are:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
set a docket for getting the ECC into the hands of the IB<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
given that the priority application is not yet available to DAS, as a place-holder, indicate in the ePCT Request that "applicant will provide".<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
get the PCT application filed.<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
badger the USPTO (through <a href="mailto:pdx@uspto.gov">pdx@uspto.gov</a> as needed) to make the priority application available to DAS<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
at some point USPTO will say (probably prematurely) that the priority application is supposedly now available to DAS<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
at this point, start doing a "trust but verify" by trying to set up an alert in DAS<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
after some days, you will hopefully be able to set up an alert in DAS (the USPTO will eventually actually do what it said it had done some days earlier)<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
dowload and save a Certificate of Availability<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
in ePCT, with connection to the subject PCT application, do an "action" for requesting that the IB retrieve the ECC from DAS<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
within one business day, the IB will report success at the retrieval through Form PCT/IB/304<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
take note that simultaneously, the DAS system will email you to report that the IB successfully retrieved the ECC<o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
clear the docket for the ECC reaching DAS<o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p>Everyone who is following this discussion of Best Practices for getting an ECC into one's PCT application is invited to register, if they have not already done so, for the upcoming comprehensive, live, in-person PCT seminars. See
<a href="https://blog.oppedahl.com/attend-a-2%c2%bd-day-live-in-person-patent-cooperation-treaty-seminar-in-scenic-summit-county-colorado-2/">
https://blog.oppedahl.com/attend-a-2%c2%bd-day-live-in-person-patent-cooperation-treaty-seminar-in-scenic-summit-county-colorado-2/</a> .<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 6/4/2024 9:40 AM, Timothy Snowden via Pct wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine, did you ask the RO/US to provide a copy on the PCT request form (RO/101)? Together with the SB/39, I would think that should take care of getting a certified
copy over without this headache on your part. I recently talked to PCT Help Desk (IB) about it when I was trying to get a provisional released from security review, and they said that if priority app is a US application, and you file request RO/US to provide
a certified copy, and as long as the USPTO finally sends over a copy (even after publication) sometime during the international phase, IB treats it as timely provided within the deadline for providing a certified copy.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> Pct
<a href="mailto:pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com"><pct-bounces@oppedahl-lists.com></a> on behalf of Katherine Koenig via Pct
<a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com"><pct@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 4, 2024 10:23 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> for users of the Patent Cooperation Treaty <a href="mailto:pct@oppedahl-lists.com">
<pct@oppedahl-lists.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Katherine Koenig <a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com"><katherine@koenigipworks.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Pct] Digitally signed PDF of certified copy of US priority document</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A client filed a provisional pro se and then I came in at the 11<sup>th</sup> hour to file US utility and PCT applications. Access to participating offices was inadvertently
<u>not</u> provided by the client in the provisional application. The day before the provisional expired, I filed a SB/39 form requesting access. That hasn’t yet been processed or approved (currently being escalated, however).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Since DAS is not (yet) an option, I’m trying to figure out how to get a certified copy of the US provisional to WIPO. I’ve ordered both hard copy and digital PDF copy on CD. However, when I try to upload the PDF document
to ePCT, it’s rejected as not being digitally signed. I called Certified Copy Center and was told that the document is digitally signed until you open the file on the CD. Then the digital signature mysteriously disappears, which is why it’s rejected by ePCT
when I open the file and try to upload it. Instead, we’re supposed to <i><u>mail the CD</u></i> to WIPO so they can open it and see the signature. Does this make any sense to anyone? Am I missing something about how to upload a certified copy in ePCT as
an Action? It can’t be this hard. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Best regards,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Katherine</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Dr. Katherine Koenig</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Registered Patent Attorney</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Koenig IP Works, PLLC</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">2208 Mariner Dr.</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black">(954) 903-1699</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="mailto:katherine@koenigipworks.com">katherine@koenigipworks.com</a></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:"Corbel",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="color:black"><img border="0" width="153" height="40" style="width:1.5937in;height:.4166in" id="x_x_Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image001.png@01DAB8EB.FF5273F0"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black">Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Candara",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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