[E-trademarks] [EXT] Re: Trade Show booth as specimen
Janet Satterthwaite
jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com
Fri Dec 15 18:41:23 EST 2023
Indeed.
Janet F. Satterthwaite|Partner/ Chair, Trademark Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC
1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025
Washington, D.C. 20006
jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com<mailto:jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com>|www.potomaclaw.com<https://www.potomaclaw.com>
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Alex Butterman via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2023 6:35 PM
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Cc: Alex Butterman <abutterman at dbllawyers.com>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] [EXT] Re: Trade Show booth as specimen
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In my experience for the past few years, examiners do not know how to find an association between the mark and the services in a service mark specimen unless the specimen explains the services verbatim with how the application recites the services.
Alex Butterman
Partner
DUNLAP BENNETT & LUDWIG
211 Church St., SE; Leesburg, VA 20175
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Crane, Susan via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 06:38 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Crane, Susan <susan.crane at wyndham.com>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [E-trademarks] Trade Show booth as specimen
Carla,
The number of idiotic refusals I have gotten to service mark specimens over the years just gets me very frustrated. All examiners seem to understand is advertising. If it isn’t advertising, they don’t get it.
Susan L. Crane
Group Vice President, Legal
Intellectual Property, Brands & Marketing
Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc.
22 Sylvan Way
Parsippany, NJ 07054
O (973) 753-6455
M (973) 879-3420
Susan.Crane at wyndham.com<mailto:Susan.Crane at wyndham.com>
From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> On Behalf Of carla calcagno via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 6:33 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: carla calcagno <cccalcagno at gmail.com<mailto:cccalcagno at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Trade Show booth as specimen
Good Luck Janet! Susan - FYI - I agree with you as to the source of the photo - just explaining my experience, similar to Janet's. This also happens when I have a car company client whose cars at a trade show are photographed by a third-party
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Good Luck Janet! Susan - FYI - I agree with you as to the source of the photo - just explaining my experience, similar to Janet's. This also happens when I have a car company client whose cars at a trade show are photographed by a third-party digital magazine. If you give the Examiner an URL link from the magazine to the page where a shot of the car sits at the trade show, or a third party has a shot of your client advertising its services at the trade show, the examiner likely will issue you a rejection.
It is a pain!
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 6:24 PM Janet Satterthwaite via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
The context was helpful. So I submitted all of it .
I will let you know how I get on thx
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 13, 2023, at 5:46 PM, Crane, Susan via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
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Carla,
This is why I would have just submitted the photo on its own, and not the website page it was taken from. A photo of the services being rendered should not depend on the source of the photo for its acceptability. The trade show booth is the trade show booth, no matter who took a picture of it. Yet another example of examiners not understanding the difference in specimens for goods vs. services, IMNSHO.
Getting off my soap box.
Susan L. Crane
Group Vice President, Legal
Intellectual Property, Brands & Marketing
Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc.
22 Sylvan Way
Parsippany, NJ 07054
O (973) 753-6455
M (973) 879-3420
Susan.Crane at wyndham.com<mailto:Susan.Crane at wyndham.com>
From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> On Behalf Of carla calcagno via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2023 5:24 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: carla calcagno <cccalcagno at gmail.com<mailto:cccalcagno at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Trade Show booth as specimen
Hi Janet In my experience, the Examiners won't take "third party" shots of your advertising for services or displays associated with the goods. So I would have submitted your client's own picture of the trade show booth. Apart
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Hi Janet
In my experience, the Examiners won't take "third party" shots of your advertising for services or displays associated with the goods. So I would have submitted your client's own picture of the trade show booth.
Apart from that the key issue for goods specimens is whether the trade show is considered a point-of-sale display. See, TMEP 904.03(g). In at least one case that I have not read in ages, flyers shown at a trade show were considered displays associated with the goods and thus considered acceptable as specimens.In re Ancha Elecs. Inc., 1 USPQ2d 1318 (TTAB 1986) (holding that a photograph showing an informational flyer or leaflet clearly depicting the mark and presented on the goods at a trade show exhibit was an acceptable display associated with the goods). But read this section, the USPTO will require you to jump through additional hoops when you file these types of specimens to show that these trade shows are point-of-sale displays for goods and not mere advertising.
I note that you sometimes say goods and sometimes say services in the email. If the specimens were for services, they should have been accepted, without more, in my opinion, so long as the specimens were your own client's photos.
Good Luck!
Carla Calcagno
On Wed, Dec 13, 2023 at 2:32 PM Janet Satterthwaite via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
Hello brain trust
We filed a use-based application for MARK for sales and marketing of [consumer goods].
The specimen was the mark prominently displayed on client's booth at an industry trade show.
The photo of the booth was from an industry blog.
The specimen has been refused, first, b/c the photo was in a third party blog (so???);
and second, because it does not show a direct association between the mark and the services.
How can that be? A booth at a trade show can only be for the purpose of sales and marketing of the goods. Moreover, the blog post described how the goods were displayed at the booth.
Has anyone encountered this before, before I dive in to the research?
thx
Janet
Janet F. Satterthwaite|Partner/ Chair, Trademark Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC
1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025
Washington, D.C. 20006
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