[E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ

[jack baldinilaw.com]

I’ve not been able to get USPQ citations via Fastcase, nor through Casetext.  I think the only place you can get a complete catalog of USPQ is through Bloomberg (BNA), although both Lexis and Westlaw have IP databases and have some of the cases.

John Brooks Baldini, Esq.
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Robert Reynolds via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 4:48 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Robert Reynolds <rreynolds at kandrip.com>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ

I, too ,want to know the answer to this. I always forget that I have FastCase via my bar membership…

Bob Reynolds
Senior Counsel
Klintworth & Rozenblat IP LLP
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Chicago, Illinois 60612
direct 773.770-2554  fax 773.570.3328
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Kevin Grierson via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 3:43 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Kevin Grierson <kgrierson at cm.law>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ

Does Fastcase have USPQ citations?  My recollection is that it doesn’t but I haven’t used it in a while.

Kevin Grierson​​​​
CULHANE|MEADOWS PLLC<http://www.culhanemeadows.com/>
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> On Behalf Of Dana Dickson via E-trademarks
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2024 4:38 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: Dana Dickson <ddlschedules at gmail.com<mailto:ddlschedules at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ

EXTERNAL EMAIL
A lot of solos and small firms use Fastcase, accessible through their bar associations at no additional cost.
To require cites to Westlaw would mean thousands of dollars annually in added expense for these practitioners - an unnecessary and heavy burden on them.

Dana Dickson

On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 11:31 AM David Boundy via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
At the very least, the PTO should make decisions citable by some reasonably-compact URL.  Before about 2007, you could cite by URL (look at some of the older articles at http://allthingspros.blogspot.com/ )   You could even search PTAB/TTAB decisions by Google!   Imagine that!

But in 2007 or so, some genius decided that people were putting too much load on the PTO's servers searching these decisions  (the load is on Google's servers, not yours, you morons) and put PTAB/TTAB decisions behind a search wall, with no URL.



On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 11:00 AM Kevin Grierson via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
Yeah, I can’t for the life of me understand why the PTO can’t go with some kind of vendor-neutral citation system, especially for TTAB and PTAB decisions? As I recall, years ago there was a push at some courts to refer (at least to their own decisions) by publication date and paragraph number rather than a West Reporter.

Kevin Grierson​​​​
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  757-726-7799<tel:757-726-7799>
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> On Behalf Of Oppedahl TM via E-trademarks
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2024 9:04 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: Oppedahl TM <oppedahltm at gmail.com<mailto:oppedahltm at gmail.com>>; reidl at sbcglobal.net<mailto:reidl at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ

EXTERNAL EMAIL
My understanding is that the only online source of USPQ cites is Bloomberg. Bloomberg owns the Bureau of National Affairs who is the sole publisher of the USPQ. Cites to the USPQ are required by USPTO rules, so USPTO practice requires either purchase of Bloomberg or USPQ hard copies. Of course, both requirements are absurd because nobody has Bloomberg, everything is (or should be available) online, and these requirements don't stop anybody from practicing before the USPTO.

Perhaps even more absurd is the solution suggested by the case that John blogged today. In place of the current requirement of subscribing to Bloomberg would be the requirement of subscribing to Westlaw. Not a solution.

Nick Santucci
LZ Legal Services

On Mon, Feb 12, 2024 at 4:40 PM Dale Quisenberry via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
Are they excluding LEXIS?

C. Dale Quisenberry
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From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> on behalf of reidl--- via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Date: Monday, 12 February 2024 at 5:48 pm
To: 'For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.' <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: reidl at sbcglobal.net<mailto:reidl at sbcglobal.net> <reidl at sbcglobal.net<mailto:reidl at sbcglobal.net>>
Subject: [E-trademarks] John's Post re the TTAB Jettisoning the USPQ
Dear All,

I don’t know how many of you caught up with John’s TTABlog today about the potential requirement that henceforth all citations to the TTAB will need to be to WESTLAW.  To me, this sounds like a solution in search of a problem.

How many people are they going to hire to change all USPQ cites in the TBMP to Westlaw cites?  And what about we old timers who have extensive libraries of USPQ citations?  I know, the USPQ has only been published since 1929 but it is still the standard.  And what about Federal Courts who prefer the USPQ cites?  From my standpoint, I’d have to write a brief using USPQ cites and then have the client pay an associate to translate that into WESTLAW cites.  Why impose that cost on us?

I have an open mind but would really like to know why the Board thinks that changing the citation format it has used for its entire existence is beneficial.  If I were still a solo, and one who did not subscribe to Westlaw, I would have to do so in order to practice before the TTAB.  I know that the universe of we folks who actually did legal research using dusty books in dwindling, but still ……

I could understand saying that “for cases decided from now on you must cite to Westlaw” but to redo history makes no sense for me.

That said, I am equally bewildered by the MENSTRUATION CRUSTACEON decision.

Paul

Paul W. Reidl
Dickenson, Peatman & Fogarty
1455 1st St #301
Napa, CA 94559
707-261-7010 x 7210
preidl at dpf-law.com<mailto:preidl at dpf-law.com>
@TMGuy





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