[E-trademarks] VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS
Carl Oppedahl
carl at oppedahl.com
Wed Sep 10 19:59:45 UTC 2025
I have had "name or likeness" refusals for the family name alone. And I
am aware of at least one where it was a single-name celebrity with what
would seem to be only a given name.
One of my cases was for labels on wine bottles, where the label had art
by some well-known painter, and the painter had apparently signed the
art. So the surname was there (in little tiny writing) on the label of
the wine bottle. But no first name. It was a little squiggle. I don't
even know how the Examiner got to be so certain that it must be a name.
I think the Examiner somehow arrived at a guess who it was, and
counted the letters in the person's family name, and matched this with
the peaks and valleys of the squiggle and decided it must be a
handwritten name.
Ah, I found one of them. Here it is.
Trademark image
On 9/10/2025 1:35 PM, Jessica R. Friedman wrote:
>
> But isn’t that usually done only when the application has the first
> and last name of a person?
>
> Jessica R. Friedman
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 300 East 59 Street, Ste. 2406
>
> New York, NY 10022
>
> Phone: 212-220-0900
>
> Cell: 917-647-1884
>
> E-mail:_jrfriedman at litproplaw.com <mailto:jrfriedman at litproplaw.com>_
>
> URL: _www.literarypropertylaw.com <http://www.literarypropertylaw.com>_
>
> 1479430908386_PastedImage
>
> *From: *Carl Oppedahl <carl at oppedahl.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 1:12 PM
> *To: *For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek
> legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Subject: *VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS
>
> By the way there is a fascinating film called "The Widow Cliquot" that
> everybody should watch if they have not already.
>
> I wonder (in the VEUVE CLIQUOT case) whether the Examiner thought to
> ask whether "Cliquot" was the name of a living individual. She died
> in 1866, but the Examiner might not have been sure about that.
>
> On 9/10/2025 10:23 AM, Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks wrote:
>
> Thanks, Susan. I didn’t have time to read the briefs. But how/ on
> what grounds? Are they saying that VEUVE CLIQUOT is descriptive
> because it describes the person who runs the company? That sounds
> like a serious stretch to me.
>
> Jessica R. Friedman
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 300 East 59 Street, Ste. 2406
>
> New York, NY 10022
>
> Phone: 212-220-0900
>
> Cell: 917-647-1884
>
> E-mail: _jrfriedman at litproplaw.com_
>
> URL: _www.literarypropertylaw.com
> <http://www.literarypropertylaw.com>_
>
> 1479430908386_PastedImage
>
> *From: *E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of
> Crane, Susan via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, September 10, 2025 at 11:48 AM
> *To: *For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
> seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc: *Crane, Susan <susan.crane at wyndham.com>
> <mailto:susan.crane at wyndham.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [E-trademarks] VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS
>
> As to point 1, I don’t think the reporter made the analogy,
> Vetements did in its argument.
>
> *Susan L. Crane*
>
> *Group Vice President, Legal*
>
> *Intellectual Property, Brands & Marketing*
>
> Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc.
>
> 22 Sylvan Way
>
> Parsippany, NJ 07054
>
> *O*(973) 753-6455
>
> *M*(973) 879-3420
>
> Susan.Crane at wyndham.com
>
> *From:*E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On Behalf Of
> *Sam Castree via E-trademarks
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2025 11:37 AM
> *To:* For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
> seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc:* Sam Castree <sam at castreelaw.com> <mailto:sam at castreelaw.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [E-trademarks] VETEMENTS case going up to SCOTUS
>
> To point #3, wow, it's hard to see how the lawyers made that
> argument with a straight face. Cheers, Sam Castree, III Sam
> Castree Law, LLC 3421 W. Elm St. McHenry, IL 60050 (815) 344-6300
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 10: 20 AM Jessica R. Friedman
>
> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerStart
>
> *This Message Is From an External Sender *
>
> Do not click links or open attachments unless you recognize the
> sender and know the content is safe.
>
> * Report Suspicious *
> <https://us-phishalarm-ewt.proofpoint.com/EWT/v1/Nf401RNTQFE14GfWW3o!ksaLCl6tbglXRS168ZwKl_svIxvTSCr7jrsNeiRjI6C7sE_uLSLu3jGLJB7FCz2mo2mB7E8Pt1X3tM9hn0lJ45I8qb-Ns8DDFzaqtZwJ_xt0so7aV3ms3L4mcynZvw$>
>
>
> ZjQcmQRYFpfptBannerEnd
>
> To point #3, wow, it's hard to see how the lawyers made that
> argument with a straight face.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sam Castree, III
>
> /Sam Castree Law, LLC/
>
> /3421 W. Elm St./
>
> /McHenry, IL 60050/
>
> /(815) 344-6300/
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 10:20 AM Jessica R. Friedman via
> E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/04/world/europe/vetements-trademark-lawsuit.html
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nytimes.com/2025/09/04/world/europe/vetements-trademark-lawsuit.html__;!!Nf401RNTQFE14GfWW3o!lffxZw7-ON4JflDT22OzuxQicjbgSUBX_S0WaiCQ5dQQl-kzDCIHkiruyFoXj9YtrHk6DWQsdQxD8oltztuHspOsWTgLI9w$>
> raises a few questions for me:
>
> 1. The NY Times reporter analogizes the registration of VEUVE
> CLIQUOT, which means “widow cliquot” and refers to the
> company matriarch, for champagne, to the registration of
> VETEMENTS, which in French means clothing, for clothing.
> Is that an analogy the applicant has actually made, or is
> this just the usual ignorance of NY Times articles when it
> comes to IP?
>
> 2. The PTO refused registration on the ground that the mark
> is merely descriptive and that it appears to be generic.
> How can it be both?
>
> 3. The applicant’s response to the OA included the argument
> that “vetements” referred only to clothing as a category,
> while they are applying to register specific items of
> clothing: “/Although the word “clothing” may have a
> relationship to an overall category of products, it is not
> the descriptive (nor generic) term for any specific item.
> A purchaser would not say they want to “buy a clothing.”
> Further, when the mark VETEMENTS is encountered an
> observer would first have to undertake translation of the
> word, and then draw a relationship to a specific item such
> as a sweatshirt”. /I understand that we have to try any
> and every credible argument, but that one doesn’t strike
> me as falling into that category.
>
> Jessica R. Friedman
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 300 East 59 Street, Ste. 2406
>
> New York, NY 10022
>
> Phone: 212-220-0900
>
> Cell: 917-647-1884
>
> E-mail: _jrfriedman at litproplaw.com_
>
> URL: _www.literarypropertylaw.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.literarypropertylaw.com__;!!Nf401RNTQFE14GfWW3o!lffxZw7-ON4JflDT22OzuxQicjbgSUBX_S0WaiCQ5dQQl-kzDCIHkiruyFoXj9YtrHk6DWQsdQxD8oltztuHspOsCXwAK4g$>_
>
> 1479430908386_PastedImage
>
> --
> E-trademarks mailing list
> E-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
> http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com__;!!Nf401RNTQFE14GfWW3o!lffxZw7-ON4JflDT22OzuxQicjbgSUBX_S0WaiCQ5dQQl-kzDCIHkiruyFoXj9YtrHk6DWQsdQxD8oltztuHspOsYonnpyc$>
>
> This email message (including all attachments) is for the sole use
> of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential
> information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact
> the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original
> message. Unless otherwise indicated in the body of this email,
> nothing in this communication is intended to operate as an
> electronic signature and this transmission cannot be used to form,
> document, or authenticate a contract. Wyndham Hotels and Resorts
> and/or its affiliates may monitor all incoming and outgoing email
> communications in the United States, including the content of
> emails and attachments, for security, legal compliance, training,
> quality assurance and other purposes.
>
> The information in this electronic mail ("e-mail") message may
> contain information that is confidential and/or privileged, or may
> otherwise be protected by work product or other legal rules. It is
> solely for the use of the individual(s) or the entity (ies)
> originally intended. Access to this electronic mail message by
> anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended
> recipient, be advised that any unauthorized review, disclosure,
> copying, distribution or use of this information, or any action
> taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and
> may be unlawful. Please notify the sender immediately if you have
> received this electronic message by mistake, and destroy all
> copies of the original message.
>
> The sender believes that this e-mail and any attachments were free
> of any virus, worm, Trojan horse, malicious code and/or other
> contaminants when sent. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed
> to be secure or error-free, so this message and its attachments
> could have been infected, corrupted or made incomplete during
> transmission. By reading the message and opening any attachments,
> the recipient accepts full responsibility for any viruses or other
> defects that may arise, and for taking remedial action relating to
> such viruses and other defects. Neither Wyndham Worldwide
> Corporation nor any of its affiliated entities is liable for any
> loss or damage arising in any way from, or for errors or omissions
> in the contents of, this message or its attachments.
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://oppedahl-lists.com/pipermail/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com/attachments/20250910/cd4afe8a/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001[52].png
Type: image/png
Size: 8892 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://oppedahl-lists.com/pipermail/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com/attachments/20250910/cd4afe8a/attachment.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 8892 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://oppedahl-lists.com/pipermail/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com/attachments/20250910/cd4afe8a/attachment-0001.png>
More information about the E-trademarks
mailing list