[Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments
Katherine Koenig
katherine at koenigipworks.com
Tue Nov 21 22:58:07 EST 2023
Interesting. Scott, thank you for sharing this and the alternatives. I’ve been using Wise for years and have never had any trouble until recently, when some transfers have been taking up to 2 weeks to complete (for no apparent reason that I can tell). No customer service, “freefall,” and lost transfers is a little scary, time to look into another service!
Best regards,
Katherine
Dr. Katherine Koenig
Registered Patent Attorney
Koenig IP Works, PLLC
2208 Mariner Dr.
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33316
(954) 903-1699
katherine at koenigipworks.com<mailto:katherine at koenigipworks.com>
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Targeted Intellectual Property Strategy
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From: Patentpractice <patentpractice-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Scott Nielson via Patentpractice
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 10:09 PM
To: Gerry Peters <gerrypeters at jttpatent.com>; For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Scott Nielson <scnielson at outlook.com>
Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments
A little research shows that Wise users have been recently having difficulties. See Ask HN: Do you know what is going on at Wise? | Hacker News (ycombinator.com)<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38069117>
It also appears that there are a number of similar alternatives that seem to do the same thing:
Business Accounts for Global Transactions - Airwallex<https://www.airwallex.com/us/business-account>
Revolut | All-in-one Finance App for your Money | Revolut<https://www.revolut.com/>
Cross-border Business Payment Account - Payoneer<https://www.payoneer.com/business/>
Fast International Money Transfers - Payments made easy | amnis (amnistreasury.com)<https://amnistreasury.com/international-payments/>
Scott Nielson
801-660-4400
________________________________
From: Gerry Peters <gerrypeters at jttpatent.com<mailto:gerrypeters at jttpatent.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 6:42 PM
To: For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Cc: Scott Nielson <scnielson at outlook.com<mailto:scnielson at outlook.com>>
Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments
For Japan, Wise was great while it lasted (the only service of which I
was aware that could do not only slow, expensive, and cumbersome wire
transfers but also quick, inexpensive, and easy electronic transfers
(_furikomi_) directly into Japanese bank accounts in the same way that
Japanese domestic account holders do daily among themselves). Alas,
it now appears that Wise is pulling out of Japan entirely. And from what
I could gather from their website, I got the impression that Japan
was not alone: whereas Wise used to support 100s of oddball
countries and currencies, at least Wise's Japan-facing website now only
shows a handful (USD, EUR, and maybe one other), and Japan/JPY is
not one of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Wise is feeling the brunt
of increasingly restrictive regulations and capital controls as
financial authorities seem to be changing the rules daily. When I have
seen such this sort of thing in the past, it has often been a precursor
to what crypto folks call "shotgun-KYC" (funds held hostage until user
jumps through newly imposed hoops to verify identity, etc.) or a
"rugpull" (service provider goes bankrupt, management absconds with user
funds to country that has no extradition treaty with one's home country,
etc.). I hope I am wrong, but at least the view from Japan is not
encouraging regarding ongoing use of Wise for international transfers.
---Gerry
Gerry Peters
U.S. Patent Agent & Japanese Translator
JTT K.K. (OSAKA & TOKYO JAPAN)
JTT PATENT SERVICES, LLC (NH USA)
JTT TRANSLATION SERVICES, LLC (NH USA)
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>> <<
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2023 01:06:29 +0000
From: Scott Nielson via Patentpractice
<patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>> To: "For patent practitioners. This
is not for laypersons to seek legal advice."
<patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>> Cc: Scott Nielson
<scnielson at outlook.com<mailto:scnielson at outlook.com>> Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] Good, Inexpensive
service for bank wire payments
Thanks for the detailed answer. I need to take another look at Wise and
see if it makes sense for my use case.
Scott Nielson
801-660-4400
________________________________
From: Carl Oppedahl
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 5:29 PM
To: For patent practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal
advice. Cc: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
seek legal advice. Subject: Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire
payments
Let me give one example of how I think the Wise system has helped me
with client billing and accounting issues.
An invoice comes in from foreign counsel in (let's say) Poland. The
invoice asks us to pay some number of Euros (€). So I go into Wise and
I click to see the last time that I paid money to that Polish firm.
And there is a button to "send again". (This means that if I somehow
had avoided screwing up the IBAN and other recipient information in the
past, then I don't need to worry about screwing it up this time.) Of
course the source of the funds is our US dollar balance with Wise. I
click around and I get to pick:
* I could pick to send some exact number of USD, in which case the
number of € that the Polish firm receives might be bigger or smaller
depending on currency exchange rates.
* I could pick that I want the Polish firm to receive some exact
number of €. In that case, the number of USD that would get deducted
from our US dollar balance might be more or less, depending on exchange
rates.
I choose the latter path because I want the Polish firm to be paid the
exact number of € that is the amount of their invoice. I go to the
invoice and copy the number of €, let's say it is €916. The Wise
system tells me that to make this happen, I will be using 987.38 USD of
my USD balance. I keep clicking and eventually it goes through.
Oh and by the way the fee charged to me for the money transfer is zero
because ... wait for it ... the Polish firm also uses Wise. And they
will not need to incur any fee to receive the money because ... our
firm and their firm are both using Wise. Oh, and they receive the
money within seconds.
Back to my main point. Our accounts-receivable department needs to
bill our client (which is located in the US) in USD. So our
accounts-receivable department wants to know just exactly, down to the
penny, how many USD were involved. The point here is I can tell them
in real time that it was 987.38 USD, not a penny more, not a penny
less. We can bill the client essentially instantly.
Second example. Suppose our client is the kind of client where we want
our (US-based) client to advance the funds to us (in USD), before we
authorize the foreign firm to carry out the work. What we would prefer
is that we ask our client for just exactly the right number of USD, not
too high, not too low. And the foreign firm already told us it will
cost (let's say) €916 to do the task.
And we know that there is a time gap. We might be authorizing the
foreign work a month from now. But we need to know right now exactly
how many USD to ask the client to advance to us. The exchange rate
will be different today than it will be for a month from now. And our
accounting department will go nuts if we ask for an advance, and a
month from now it turns out the advance was not exactly the same. A
true-up would be needed and our accounting department hates that. Plus
the money was going into and out of our escrow account and the true-up
makes it even more complicated.
So what we do is, we use Wise to convert some of our USD into the
foreign currency involved (in this case €). We have a € balance with
Wise, and we do what it takes to add €916 to our Euro balance. And we
know, right now, exactly how many USD were required to make that
happen. So we can ask the client to advance that number of USD (plus,
if needed, the fee for the wire transfer itself, which is completely
predictable down to the penny). And later when we pay the foreign
counsel, we send that exact €916 that we have been holding in our €
balance for these weeks.
No need for a true-up later because of changes in the $-and-€ exchange
rate.
And we know exactly how much money got charged for converting the $ to
€.
So we never need to do true-ups.
Years ago we were constantly having to do true-ups, back when we were
using Reusch and then when we were using Travelex and then when we were
using Afex. Oh and heaven forbid for a while we were actually using
our local bricks-and-mortar bank for the foreign money transfers (Wells
Fargo). Boy that was a big mistake to use our ordinary bank. Anyway,
we were constantly having to do true-ups because invariably when we
quoted to the client how many USD the task was going to cost, to do
something in a foreign country in Euros, the exchange rate would have
later changed.
Yet another thing is that if we want, we can accept payments from our
European colleagues in Euros or pounds sterling or Polish Zlotys. We
have bank details that permit us to receive those currencies.
On 11/21/2023 4:57 PM, Scott Nielson via Patentpractice wrote:
How does Wise help large firm accounting departments in the way you
describe? As someone who has all those issues, especially the wire
transfer fees, I'm interested in knowing how you avoid them.
Scott Nielson
801-660-4400
________________________________
From: Patentpractice
<patentpractice-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:patentpractice-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
on behalf of Orvis via Patentpractice
<patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2023 4:52 PM To: For patent practitioners.
This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Orvis <orvispc at gmail.com<mailto:orvispc at gmail.com>><mailto:orvispc at gmail.com>; Dineen Wasylik
<dineen at wasylik.net<mailto:dineen at wasylik.net>><mailto:dineen at wasylik.net>; For trademark
practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice.
<e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Subject: Re: [Patentpractice] [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service
for bank wire payments
Wise is also great for those at large firms who's accounting department
says they cannot figure out how to deliver a dollar certain to a
recipient and then tells you that you need to figure out conversions
and wire transfer fees along the way.
Nov 21, 2023 6:09:23 PM Richard Schafer via Patentpractice
<patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>:
Wise has been a godsend for my solo practice. Highly recommended.
Best regards,
Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law
P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223
M: 832.283.6564 | richard at schafer-ip.com<mailto:richard at schafer-ip.com<mailto:richard at schafer-ip.com%3cmailto:richard at schafer-ip.com>>
From: E-trademarks
<e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
On Behalf Of Dineen Wasylik via E-trademarks Sent: Tuesday, November
21, 2023 11:14 AM To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for
laypersons to seek legal advice.
<e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>><mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Dineen Wasylik <dineen at wasylik.net<mailto:dineen at wasylik.net>><mailto:dineen at wasylik.net>;
patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com%3cmailto:patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com>>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank wire
payments
I agree with Carlk, though I think they now call it just "wise" but
wise.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwise.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b5D%2FWmkE%2B48xA1eGsr8EsnUL3lHyAOSRSMxaAaKVHrc%3D&reserved=0<http://wise.com/>> is what I have based on recommendations from
other practitioners. It is easy and much less expensive than
bank-based wires. It handles currency conversion much better than my
bank folks did, too.
Best,
Dineen
On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:58 AM Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks
<e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com%3cmailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>>
wrote:
See
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.oppedahl.com%2Feventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FoE%2FCMiNoEAUppHHtcBciK%2FfznjlkttHr5sbEkq4ao0%3D&reserved=0<https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/>
On 11/20/2023 10:53 PM, voyer--- via E-trademarks wrote:
> A year or maybe more ago, there was elist discussion of a good,
> inexpensive service for bank wire services. At least internationally,
> perhaps also domestic. My saved copy is now hiding from me. Would
> appreciate contact info for that service, and it is stlil a good
> recommendation. Thanks,
>
> Daniel Kegan * 847-452-2599
> Baron Harris Healey, Of Counsel
> <DKegan at BHHLawFirm.com<mailto:DKegan at BHHLawFirm.com<mailto:DKegan at BHHLawFirm.com%3cmailto:DKegan at BHHLawFirm.com>>>
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhhlawfirm.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KP55DM1Z4gr8bw0K%2FonZTMsptL6%2Boq1tPssexrjhorg%3D&reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bhhlawfirm.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cc55190adfcc842f23f0708dbeb00fa6a%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638362161665340340%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KP55DM1Z4gr8bw0K%2FonZTMsptL6%2Boq1tPssexrjhorg%3D&reserved=0<http://www.bhhlawfirm.com/>>>
> Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®
> 29 Kendal Dr
> Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA
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