[Patentcenter] Patent Center error reports

Thu Nov 9 19:16:44 UTC 2023

That could work. The CP list has been excellent at identifying the errors. It should have, but has not, proven motivating to the PTO to correct the errors.

I believe the PTO needs evidence of frequency to motivate them. For example, if the EBC or someone can show them 1,500 reports everyday of CP174 occurring, then that may get their attention. They seem to be thinking that only catastrophic errors matter. If it occasionally takes a filer 20 to 30 minutes to tinker with browsers and settings and restarts, but the filer eventually gets the task done, then the PTO is okay with that. Maybe they will rethink if they know it happens to 1,500 users per day. My thought was that error reports in the EBC’s hands would be more authoritative and that allows reports to be more detailed with application numbers and/or customer numbers.

James Lake

From: Patentcenter <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Suzannah K. Sundby via Patentcenter
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 11:01 AM
To: patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com
Cc: Suzannah K. Sundby <suzannah at canadylortz.com>; David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Patentcenter] Patent Center error reports

[External Email]
Obviously, our comment letters have been futile.

So, my recommendation is that, as each one of us experiences a bug/problem, the given person emails the issue to the following people at the USPTO:
Williams, Kimberly (OITP) <Kimberly.Williams at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Kimberly.Williams at USPTO.GOV>>; Brent, Derrick <Derrick.Brent at uspto.gov<mailto:Derrick.Brent at uspto.gov>>; Udupa, Vaishali <Vaishali.Udupa at uspto.gov<mailto:Vaishali.Udupa at uspto.gov>>; Seidel, Richard <Richard.Seidel at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Richard.Seidel at USPTO.GOV>>; Vidovich, Greg <Greg.Vidovich at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Greg.Vidovich at USPTO.GOV>>; Morris, Terrel <Terrel.Morris at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Terrel.Morris at USPTO.GOV>>; Mallari, Patricia <Patricia.Mallari at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Patricia.Mallari at USPTO.GOV>>; Griffin, Steven <Steven.Griffin at USPTO.GOV<mailto:Steven.Griffin at USPTO.GOV>>
and EBC <EBC at USPTO.GOV<mailto:EBC at USPTO.GOV>>

The email should provide the application number.  Thus, for unpublished applications, one cannot provide to the Listserv BUT later when published, one can share to the Listserv of one desires.

One should save their email to the USPTO for posterity (especially considering that the USPTO redacts essentially entire emails they must produce in response to FOIA requests).

What emailing each bug/issue to the above persons will do is:

  1.  Create a clear record the USPTO cannot deny or claim that they were unaware of such problems;
  2.  The amount of email they receive will likely make it clear to them and OMB that there is a BIG problem with PatentCenter; and
  3.  Perhaps the amount of email will cause them to actually do something about it rather than claiming that the issues are insignificant and rare.

One should also save any corresponding USPTO responses to their emails.

And, when push comes to shove, and things haven’t improved yet the USPTO is intent on ramming the [ ] down our throats, we can collect and provide the mountain of our emails to them in a letter to OMB… which when someone at OMB sees all the email complaints we collated (which include Brent and Udupa as addressees) will be left wondering WTH especially if THEY  (mis)represented to OMB that the issues are rare and insignificant.

Besides, as far as I know, there is no rule that prohibits us from emailing them directly with our issues with USPTO systems.  In fact, it seems to me that we have a professional duty to do so for the integrity of the US Patent System.

Suzannah K. Sundby<http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssundby/> | Partner
canady + lortz LLP<http://www.canadylortz.com/>
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Washington, DC 20007
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From: Patentcenter <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> On Behalf Of David Boundy via Patentcenter
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 1:39 PM
To: patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: David Boundy <DavidBoundyEsq at gmail.com<mailto:DavidBoundyEsq at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [Patentcenter] Patent Center error reports

James Lake hits the nail on the head.

I have proposed in the past that we MUST start collecting evidence.   Maybe in a Wiki.   Maybe in Google docs. .  Or maybe we should use the CP list, but in that case, we need to start documenting our bugs better, with enough information to convince a skeptic that the bug is real and reproducible.  We won't get anywhere with whining and anecdotes.  We need facts.  What made Victoria O'Connor's email and several things I've gotten from James so great and easy to use is that they had everything I needed to prove the point -- a reasonably detailed narrative, a screen shot...  A sentence or two of anecdote, or even longer anecdotes without any cites or information to allow the PTO to reproduce the failure -- it won't convince the folks that need to be convinced. “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”  We have to get the information uphill against that.

We're lawyers.   For crying out loud, we should be able to function within the concept of evidence.

As you can see, I have had a lot of time available for this, but I need help.  I have paying work that has to get done.  I suggest the next step is someone come up with an index of subject headings, maybe 7-20 general classes of bugs so that we have some kind of organization.   Then I will help you set it up as a Google doc that is easy for others to add to.  Unless you have a better Wiki tool.  Or someone tell me that the CP list is capable of doing this.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 1:15 PM James E. Lake via Patentcenter <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com<mailto:patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>> wrote:
As we continue to encounter the infuriating, frequent errors in PC, it seems in our best interest to document a body count with the EBC that these errors are occurring. Below please find an example.

One of the justifications for inaction by the PTO has been something like, “most users find that PC works just fine” or “we do not have reports of errors.” Well, most users encountering errors find a way to get their work done by signing out then logging back in, switching browsers, restarting the computer, clearing the cache, waiting 30 minutes, etc. etc. etc. This mode of operation appears to be completely acceptable to PTO and perhaps even expected under NWOW. It is “unfreakingbelievable” (thanks Suzannah) that users are subjected to such disdain and spend double, triple, or quadruple the time to complete the final administrative step in PTO submissions.

Yes, it is a royal pain to make error reports, but it will be more of a royal pain for the present mode of operation to continue for years. Developers keep saying they cannot duplicate the errors. Maybe if they have stacks of thousands of well-documented error reports they will finally drop their lame excuse. I doubt the EBC will timely reply or send any useful info, but the point is to create a body count of real, continuing errors. Report an error especially if you are forced to file by fax or mail. Learn how to take screenshots (shift+command+s in Windows) and paste the screenshot into the email. (Tip: decreasing the window size before the screenshot helps the image fit better.)

James

From: James E. Lake
Sent: Thursday, November 9, 2023 9:12 AM
To: 'ebc at uspto.gov<mailto:ebc at uspto.gov>' <ebc at uspto.gov<mailto:ebc at uspto.gov>>
Subject: Blank page Patent Center

I am currently unable to open Patent Center in MS Edge or Firefox or Google Chrome. After authenticating into MyUSPTO and selecting Patent Center from the menu, the web page opens with the correct URL identified in the tab, but the page is completely blank. Reloading the page does not change it.

Suggestions?

Screen shots attached.

[cid:image001.png at 01DA12FE.23FAE7D0]

[cid:image002.png at 01DA12FE.23FAE7D0]

Tried again and received this error

[cid:image003.png at 01DA12FE.23FAE7D0]

[cid:image004.png at 01DA12FE.23FAE7D0]James E. Lake
Shareholder, Randall | Danskin
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