[E-trademarks] Let me be the first...

Thu Nov 30 19:38:18 EST 2023

So, I think this new search is a disaster for the lay user. I have no 
idea how they are supposed to find reliable results. It is a mystery (to 
me, anyway) why you get:

Wordmark: big john - 8929
Wordmark: "big john" - 8929
Search by all: big john - 27,956
Search by all: "big john" - 21

The help says this:

> For example, |ON:“John Smith” OR ON:“John A. Smith”| retrieves records 
> where the owner is either John Smith or John A. Smith. Spaces are 
> treated as |OR|, for example, |CM:(rain OR shine)| retrieves the same 
> results as |CM:(rain shine)|. 
I'm not sure whether the quotation marks above are part of the search 
itself. It seems that sometimes, but not always, it ignores the 
quotation marks. So in some cases spaces are treated as "or," which 
appears to be happening in the wordmark search with or without 
quotations, but NOT happening in "Search by all" if you use quotations, 
but is happening in "Search by all" if you don't use them.

Go figure. I just skip the basic search altogether and jump right into 
expert searching by fields with boolean connections, so I know I'm 
getting the right results - unless of course I forget to capitalize the 
connector or the field code.

Pam

Pamela S. Chestek
Chestek Legal
300 Fayetteville Street
Unit 2492
Raleigh, NC 27602
pamela at chesteklegal.com
(919) 800-8033
www.chesteklegal.com

On 11/30/2023 3:06 PM, Richard Morris via E-trademarks wrote:
>
> Here is the glitch.
>
> If you search “big john” under *Wordmark* search you get 8,929 hits.
>
> A screenshot of a search results Description automatically generated
>
> If you search “big john” under *Search by all* then you get 21 hits.
>
> A screenshot of a search results Description automatically generated
>
> *From: *carla calcagno <cccalcagno at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 5:53 PM
> *To: *"For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek 
> legal advice." <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc: *Richard Morris <richard at 4trademark.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [E-trademarks] Let me be the first...
>
> Thanks Richard
>
> You are in basic search right?
>
> And what is the search term you use so that you ONLY get BIG JOHN 
> marks instead of marks containing both those names?
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 5:50 PM Richard Morris via E-trademarks 
> <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:
>
>     Susan Crane found the glitch.
>
>     You must _not_ limit the search to “Wordmark”.   You can only
>     search in “Search All”.    Try it.   You get vastly different
>     results.
>
>     *From: *E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> on
>     behalf of "Renee.Kraft via E-trademarks"
>     <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
>     *Reply-To: *"For trademark practitioners. This is not for
>     laypersons to seek legal advice." <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
>     *Date: *Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 5:37 PM
>     *To: *"For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
>     seek legal advice." <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
>     *Cc: *"Renee.Kraft" <Renee.Kraft at target.com>
>     *Subject: *Re: [E-trademarks] Let me be the first...
>
>     I also get 95 results with “big AND john” so at least there’s
>     consistency!
>
>     Maybe try closing out of the current search session and starting a
>     new one. You may have accidentally clicked something along the way
>     that’s causing the issue. I sound like tech support….have you
>     tried rebooting? J
>
>     *From:* E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On
>     Behalf Of *Crane, Susan via E-trademarks
>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2023 4:30 PM
>     *To:* For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
>     seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
>     *Cc:* Crane, Susan <susan.crane at wyndham.com>
>     *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [E-trademarks] Let me be the first...
>
>     Odd, when I search “big john” in quotes, I get 95 results for
>     marks consisting of Big John
>
>     *Susan L. Crane*
>
>     *Group Vice President, Legal*
>
>     *Intellectual Property, Brands & Marketing*
>
>     Wyndham Hotels & Resorts, Inc.
>
>     22 Sylvan Way
>
>     Parsippany, NJ 07054
>
>     *O*(973) 753-6455
>
>     *M*(973) 879-3420
>
>     Susan.Crane at wyndham.com <mailto:Susan.Crane at wyndham.com>
>
>     *From:* E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On
>     Behalf Of *Richard Morris via E-trademarks
>     *Sent:* Thursday, November 30, 2023 5:24 PM
>     *To:* For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
>     seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
>     *Cc:* Richard Morris <richard at 4trademark.com>
>     *Subject:* Re: [E-trademarks] Let me be the first...
>
>     I would like to know how to search for a two-word mark. I can
>     search for “BIGJOHN” for example. But when I search for “BIG JOHN”
>     as two words I get hundreds of trademarks for just the term JOHN
>     and or just the term BIG. I only want to retrieve
>
>     I would like to know how to search for a two-word mark.
>
>     I can search for “BIGJOHN” for example.   But when I search for
>     “BIG JOHN” as two words I get hundreds of trademarks for just the
>     term JOHN and or just the term BIG.
>
>     I only want to retrieve trademarks that have both words.
>
>     Please help.
>
>     Thanks
>
>     Richard
>
>     *From: *E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com
>     <mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>> on behalf of
>     Janet Satterthwaite via E-trademarks
>     <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
>     <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
>     *Reply-To: *"For trademark practitioners. This is not for
>     laypersons to seek legal advice." <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
>     <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
>     *Date: *Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 5:09 PM
>     *To: *"Jessica R. Friedman via E-trademarks"
>     <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
>     <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>>
>     *Cc: *Janet Satterthwaite <jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com
>     <mailto:jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com>>
>     *Subject: *[E-trademarks] Let me be the first...
>
>     to post a big WHINE about the new search function.
>
>     I can't figure out how to search by attorney of record or
>     disclaimers, to name a couple of whines.
>
>     Then when you click on a hit, it takes you to TSDR instead of TESS
>
>     There are so many more whines.
>
>     PTO—are you lurking? THIS IS VERY BAD.
>
>     *Janet F. Satterthwaite*|Partner/ Chair, Trademark
>     Practice|Potomac Law Group, PLLC
>
>     1717 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Suite 1025
>
>     Washington, D.C. 20006
>
>     jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com
>     <mailto:jsatterthwaite at potomaclaw.com>|www.potomaclaw.com
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>
>
>     https://www.potomaclaw.com/professionals-janet-f-satterthwaite
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