[E-trademarks] Help on quick, down, and dirty learning the new advanced search features

[Ken Boone]

>> So apparently, the GS3 search only finds records where the IC is the primary class and not where the US class is the primary class.

That is my conclusion, plus that emphasizes that the search system must have a full record display, preferably with the search terms highlighted so that there's no confusion regarding what was loaded to the search system and to help identify the key terms searched.  Currently, we are trying to guess the exact syntax of GS/GS2/GS3 entries in the search system.  We shouldn't have to guess - it should be fully exposed in the full record display, enforcing the philosophy what you see is what you search.  The necessity of switching to TSDR to see what we need to search turns the construction of effective searches into a guessing game.  (Sound familiar?  I raised this concern earlier for the SA - Status - search field, as we really do NOT know what keywords/phrases to search from the online hint contains a status such as registered, "published for opposition”, or “new application.”  Then again, a full record display within the search system has been a common theme in this trademark discussion group.)

>> And I'm confused. Why does the same search using GS or GS2 not find the 72457899 record, regardless of whether 009 or 021 is specified in the search? Both of them are supposed to contain the IC and the U.S. class. Is the difference that GS3 prepends the primary class to the goods and services text, while GS and GS2 include the IC and U.S. class in the search, but not as part of the same string as the goods and services?

Exactly!  Using 72457899 as an example, TSDR shows the following GS text referenced by the GS3:/.*009.*INTEGRATED.CIRCUITS.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72* search.

For:  INTEGRATED CIRCUITS [ AND REGISTERS ]  International Class(es): 009   U.S Class(es): 021 - Primary Class
Class Status: ACTIVE  Basis: 1(a)  First Use: Jul. 31, 1971 Use in Commerce: Aug. 30, 1971

Unfortunately, we do not know which portions of that TSDR text were included in the search system, what portions were excluded, and what delimiters (if any) were added, plus there's the assumption that dates were likely converted to the YYYYMMDD format for the use date fields.  I'm guessing the flags Primary Class and Class Status: ACTIVE were excluded from the search system, but (i) we shouldn't have to guess and (ii) all relevant flags should be preserved in the search system with appropriate delimiters, versus the current ambiguity that has created the confusion for searching.

Actually, the search system does provide a pop-up window for 72457899 relative to the GS entry for that search, namely

Goods and services for 72457899
Class 009
US 021
G & S: US 021: INTEGRATED CIRCUITS [ AND REGISTERS ].
Class 009
...

but that pop-up window does not eliminate my confusion over what is stored in the search system (plus some delimiters between key terms probably would assist in constructing effective searches).

Thank you, Lara, for sharing the challenging search syntax.  Thanks to the others who have contributed to the discussion.  Thank you in advance, USPTO lurkers, for any efforts to help resolve our confusion.

Happy Trademarking,
Ken Boone

________________________________
From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Richard Schafer via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 6:30 PM
To: For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Richard Schafer <richard at schafer-ip.com>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Help on quick, down, and dirty learning the new advanced search features

So apparently, the GS3 search only finds records where the IC is the primary class and not where the US class is the primary class.

And I'm confused. Why does the same search using GS or GS2 not find the 72457899 record, regardless of whether 009 or 021 is specified in the search? Both of them are supposed to contain the IC and the U.S. class. Is the difference that GS3 prepends the primary class to the goods and services text, while GS and GS2 include the IC and U.S. class in the search, but not as part of the same string as the goods and services?

Best regards,
Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law
P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223
M: 832.283.6564 | richard at schafer-ip.com

-----Original Message-----
From: E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> On Behalf Of Neil R. Ormos via E-trademarks
Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2024 2:41 PM
To: E-trademarks Mailing List <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
Cc: Neil R. Ormos <ormos-lists at ormos.org>
Subject: Re: [E-trademarks] Help on quick, down, and dirty learning the new advanced search features

Ken Boone via E-trademarks wrote:

> A new search theory: the search syntax GS3:/.*009.*widget.*/ is
> effective for retrieving all records with the single term widget in
> class 009.

> My immediate reaction: Where did the search field GS3 come from?  I
> recalled the GS2 search field but not the GS3 search field.  Checking
> the online help, following are the relevant list of search fields.
> [...]

> [...] Another example is
>
> GS3:/.*009.*INTEGRATED.CIRCUITS.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*
>
> for which I expected to see 72457899 among the hits. Nope. [...]

> That's 3 examples with specific serial numbers that were not included
> in the search results.
> So what am I doing wrong?  Or have I presented 3 counter examples to
> that search theory?

Compare the results from

GS3:/.*009.*integrated.circuit.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*

with

GS3:/.*021.*integrated.circuit.*/ AND LD:true AND SN:72*

which latter set does include 72457899.

In the single result for the 009 search, "009" is contained in the G & S field.

In the results for the 021 search, "021" is contained in the G & S fields, but "009" is not.

Maybe we need to ask the PTO to add another derivative index, say "GS4", that, for each class, contains GS3, with the international class code prepended.

It would also be nice if the PTO would kindly clarify whether search terms between slashes are interpreted as anchored POSIX regular expressions.

--
E-trademarks mailing list
E-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com

--
E-trademarks mailing list
E-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com
http://oppedahl-lists.com/mailman/listinfo/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://oppedahl-lists.com/pipermail/e-trademarks_oppedahl-lists.com/attachments/20240110/46f5ec39/attachment.htm>