[Patentcenter] Declarations and DOCX filing

Thu Jan 18 20:27:31 UTC 2024

I agree with Rich.  My firm has issued a policy that we only file in PDF.
If a client wants DOCX, we give them a parade of horribles, and tell them
that if they want to save $400, they must give us instructions in writing,
and acknowledge all the costs of all the horribles.  Any nitwit can see
that all the excess costs will be close to, perhaps above, $400 for even
best-case applications, and any single high cost example will drive the
average far above $400.   I'll let you know in a couple months if anyone
accepts the offer.

On Thu, Jan 18, 2024 at 3:16 PM Richard Straussman via Patentcenter <
patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:

> Much better to simply not file in DOCX (of course, its your license at
> risk, not to mention the value of any patent that might issue).
>
> *Richard Straussman*
>
>
> *Senior Counsel Registered Patent Attorney * Member NY, NJ & CT Bars
> *. . . . . . . . . . . . . .*
> *Weitzman Law Offices, LLC*
> *Intellectual Property Law*
> 425 Eagle Rock Avenue, Suite 401 (PLEASE NOTE THE SUITE CHANGE)
> Roseland, NJ 07068
> *direct line* 973.403.9943
> *main* 973.403.9940
> *fax* 973.403.9944
> *e-mail* rstraussman at weitzmanip.com
>
>
> *http://www.weitzmanip.com <http://www.weitzmanip.com/> *
>
>
>
> On 1/18/2024 3:04 PM, Benjamin Keim via Patentcenter wrote:
>
> For those applications that are filed in DOCX, it bothers me that the
> document reviewed by the inventors when they decide to sign the declaration
> is not the document that is saved in Patent Center.
>
>
>
> For PDF filings we would send the inventors the PDF document and the
> declaration form. They would choose to sign the declaration if they agreed
> what was in the PDF specification and drawings was their invention. We
> would upload the documents reviewed by the inventors and they would be
> saved in the USPTO’s electronic system. I suppose it wasn’t actually the
> documents reviewed by the inventors because the PDFs were changed by
> flattening each page to a TIFF image and reassembling as a PDF. But all the
> ink on the page would be the same but for some halftoning degradation.
>
>
>
> The USPTO declaration form PTO/AIA/01 for declarations included with the
> initial filing has the language “As the below named inventor, I hereby
> declare that: This declaration is directed to: The attached application.”
> What the inventor considers as the “attached application” may be different
> than what becomes the record copy in Patent Center. Does this open up the
> inventors to risk of fine or imprisonment (or both) if the USPTO systems
> change something significant in the DOCX file?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking about creating a declaration form that lists the file name,
> file size, and SHA-512 hash of the documents (spec and drawings) provided
> to the inventors. My intention for this would be to unambiguously link the
> documents reviewed by the inventors with their statements made in the
> declaration.
>
>
>
> -Ben
>
>
>
> Benjamin A. Keim
>
> (206) 920-9038
>
> *ben at newportip.com <ben at newportip.com>*
>
>
>
> *From:* Patentcenter <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On Behalf Of *Carl Oppedahl
> via Patentcenter
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 18, 2024 9:01 AM
> *To:* For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about Patent
> Center. <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc:* Carl Oppedahl <carl at oppedahl.com> <carl at oppedahl.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO - some legacy things do
> work
>
>
>
> Yeah, I imagine most practitioners do always file the declaration with the
> application.  I imagine I am quite out of the ordinary, having to hand in
> inventors' declarations later.
>
> What happens to me is, I keep fiddling with the text of the patent
> application, particularly the claims, with multiple version changes leading
> up to the moment, late in the day on the last possible day, that I click
> "submit" and e-file it at the patent office.
>
> The inventor declaration of course is tied to the notion that the signer
> has reviewed the patent application that is going to be filed, and agrees
> that he or she is an inventor thereof.  But in my case, given that the
> exact wording of the application kept wriggling around until the very end,
> there is no way the inventor could be expected to sign such a thing until
> after the wriggling had ceased.  Which means, no way could the inventor
> even sign the declaration until chronologically after the filing of the
> application had taken place.
>
> Yet another thing that happens to me is, the instructions come in from
> foreign instructing counsel to please get something filed at the USPTO.  So
> I prepare inventor declarations and send them to instructing counsel.  The
> signed declarations do not arrive until some days later, long after the US
> patent application got filed.  Which means, no way could I managed to file
> the declaration with the application.
>
> On 1/18/2024 8:49 AM, Randall Svihla via Patentcenter wrote:
>
> We always file the declaration with the application.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Patentcenter <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Browdy via
> Patentcenter
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:34 AM
> *To:* For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about Patent
> Center. <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc:* Roger Browdy <RLBrowdy at browdyneimark.com>
> <RLBrowdy at browdyneimark.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO - some legacy things do
> work
>
>
>
> I don’t think it is a joke.  I bet there was a huge volume of applications
> filed Tuesday night to avoid the DOCX tax.  We had to file one late at
> night and had a hell of a time trying to do so.  Couldn’t file the
> assignment/dec forms with EPAS because of the problems and couldn’t get
> back into PC to file the declaration directly, so have to pay the surcharge
> for late filing of declaration because of the PTO problems.  In a fair
> world, we would be able to get that refunded.
>
>
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> *From:* Patentcenter <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> *On Behalf Of *Patent Lawyer
> via Patentcenter
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 18, 2024 10:25 AM
> *To:* For bug reports, feature requests, and tips and tricks about Patent
> Center. <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <patentcenter at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc:* Patent Lawyer <patentlawyer995 at gmail.com>
> <patentlawyer995 at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [Patentcenter] Faxes to the PTO - some legacy things do work
>
>
>
> There was recent discussion about faxes to the PTO and return faxes from
> the PTO.
>
>
>
> Because of yesterday’s shit show with Patent Center and because of other
> deficiencies in Patent Center, I had to fax four separate submissions to
> the PTO last night.
>
>
>
> I did receive acknowledgment faxes back from the PTO for each
> submission.   So, that legacy functionality is still there, and it still
> worked for me.  (I hope the PTO lurkers on this list don’t go and turn it
> off!)
>
>
>
> I use a service called eFax.  It is not free.
>
>
>
>
>
> PS. I am still laughing at Sandra E’s joke about DDOS being just normal
> filers filing in a volume the system can’t handle.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>

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