[E-trademarks] XE versus Wise (was Good, Inexpensive service for bank wire payments)
Carl Oppedahl
carl at oppedahl.com
Thu Nov 23 06:16:30 EST 2023
Round-trips of money going to and from a bricks-and-mortar bank account
cost money.
And yes, the currency exchange fee (if any) is something to consider as
a distinct cost from a foreign money transfer fee.
So for example if I already have a balance in CAD, and if I am sending
CAD to (let's say) a trademark firm in Canada that invoices us in CAD,
then there is no need for any currency conversion fee. The only service
that I need to purchase is "get the CAD from here to there".
And with Wise, this fee is CAD 3.57.
So let's go step by step. If we start with $744.01 and convert it at
XE's midmarket rate of 1.36837 to CAD, you would get CAD1018.19.
With Wise, if we start with $744.01 and convert it to CAD, there is a
two-step calculation. First there is a currency conversion fee of USD
3.85. The leftover USD is 740.16. this gets converted to CAD using
Wise's conversion rate of 1.36840 which deviates from mid-market rate by
only about 0.2%. This yields CAD 1012.83.
Now suppose what we are doing with these newly acquired CAD is sending
them to the Canadian trademark firm. That costs the above-mentioned fee
of CAD 3.57. So the Canadian firm would receive CAD 1009.26 if Wise
were used.
But on this same set of starting conditions, if XE is used, the Canadian
trademark firm receives only CAD 997.35.
So XE is charging maybe CAD 11.91 more, but it is hidden away in the
exchange rate.
But there is another aspect that maybe has not been mentioned, namely
where exactly the $744.01 comes from.
If XE.com is used, I wonder if the $744.01 is getting pulled from a
bricks-and-mortar bank account? If so, then there is an ACH fee hidden
away in the currency exchange rate.
If Wise is used, then we can talk about any of several places the
$744.01 can come from. If it comes from our USD balance at Wise, then
there is no ACH fee. if it comes from our bricks-and-mortar bank
account, then there is an ACH fee of something like 51¢.
But anyway on a first look, the XE approach loses maybe 1.2% compared
with the Wise approach.
On 11/22/2023 6:18 PM, Jim Larsen wrote:
>
> Yes, real numbers: Canadian firm charged $997.35 CAD. I entered that
> amount and XE calculated the U.S. dollars needed, pulled it from my
> bank account, and transferred the calculated amount in under two
> business days.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Jim
>
> James C. Larsen
> Attorney
> Larsen IP PLLC
> p: 425.298.6846
> e: jim at Larsen-IP.com <mailto:jim at Larsen-IP.com>
> w. www.Larsen-IP.com <http://www.Larsen-IP.com>
>
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> *From: *Carl Oppedahl <carl at oppedahl.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 3:51 PM
> *To: *For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to seek
> legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank wire
> payments
>
> can you quote the overall results? You were charged a total of some
> number of USD, and the Canadian firm received how many CAD?
>
> I'd like to see what it would have cost to do the same thing in Wise.
>
> On 11/22/2023 4:23 PM, Jim Larsen via E-trademarks wrote:
>
> I just started using XE.com for U.S.->foreign transfers. No
> (separate) wire fee. Indeed, the entire cost of the transaction
> is built into the exchange rate. Example: I recently sent payment
> to a Canadian firm. Spot rate was 1 USD = 1.3405 CAD. My
> calculations suggest this is about 2.9% worse than public spot FX
> price (average of about 1.38 that day). So, similar to credit
> card fees for most services for domestic transactions. Customer
> service (on my admittedly low volume so far) was excellent. I had
> several calls setting things up and they were very helpful.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Jim
>
> James C. Larsen
> Attorney
> Larsen IP PLLC
> p: 425.298.6846
> e: jim at Larsen-IP.com <mailto:jim at Larsen-IP.com>
> w. www.Larsen-IP.com <http://www.Larsen-IP.com>
>
> NOTICE OF CONFIDENTIALITY: The information contained in
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> or entity named herein. If the reader of this message is not
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> notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited. Unintended recipients
> are requested to notify the sender immediately and to permanently
> delete this e-mail, any attachments, and copies.
>
> *From: *E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com> on behalf of Lara
> Pearson via E-trademarks <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Date: *Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 12:46 PM
> *To: *For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons to
> seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> <mailto:e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc: *Lara Pearson <lara at brandgeek.net> <mailto:lara at brandgeek.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for bank
> wire payments
>
> I pay using a Corp Platinum Amex as often as possible b/t there
> are no foreign transaction fees, but not all firms take CCs or Amex.
>
> WISE is not available in Nevada. My bank makes me go in to make a
> foreign wire & charges $30/per.
>
> Any runners-up to Wise?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Holiday cheers!
>
> Lara Pearson (she/her/hers)[Why pronouns
> <https://medium.com/gender-inclusivit/why-i-put-pronouns-on-my-email-signature-and-linkedin-profile-and-you-should-too-d3dc942c8743>?]
> (Hear how I say my name <https://namedrop.io/larapearson>)
>
> Law Office of Lara Pearson Ltd, PBC
>
> Leader, Brand Geek
>
> A Law Firm Run by and for Soulfulpreneurs^SM
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> On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 3:09 PM Richard Schafer via E-trademarks
> <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:
>
> Wise has been a godsend for my solo practice. Highly recommended.
>
> Best regards,
> *Richard A. Schafer | Schafer IP Law*
> P.O. Box 230081 | Houston, TX 77223
> M: 832.283.6564 | richard at schafer-ip.com
> <mailto:richard at schafer-ip.com>
>
> *From:*E-trademarks <e-trademarks-bounces at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *On Behalf Of *Dineen Wasylik via E-trademarks
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 21, 2023 11:14 AM
> *To:* For trademark practitioners. This is not for laypersons
> to seek legal advice. <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com>
> *Cc:* Dineen Wasylik <dineen at wasylik.net>;
> patentpractice at oppedahl-lists.com
> *Subject:* Re: [E-trademarks] Good, Inexpensire service for
> bank wire payments
>
> I agree with Carlk, though I think they now call it just
> "wise" but wise.com <http://wise.com> is what I have based on
> recommendations from other practitioners. It is easy and much
> less expensive than bank-based wires. It handles
> currency conversion much better than my bank folks did, too.
>
> Best,
>
> Dineen
>
> On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 5:58 AM Carl Oppedahl via E-trademarks
> <e-trademarks at oppedahl-lists.com> wrote:
>
> See
> https://blog.oppedahl.com/eventually-every-patent-and-trademark-firm-will-have-a-transferwise-account/
>
> On 11/20/2023 10:53 PM, voyer--- via E-trademarks wrote:
> > A year or maybe more ago, there was elist discussion of
> a good, inexpensive service for bank wire services.
> > At least internationally, perhaps also domestic. My
> saved copy is now hiding from me.
> > Would appreciate contact info for that service, and it
> is stlil a good recommendation. Thanks,
> >
> > Daniel Kegan * 847-452-2599
> > Baron Harris Healey, Of Counsel
> > <DKegan at BHHLawFirm.com>
> > <http://www.BHHLawFirm.com <http://www.BHHLawFirm.com>>
> > Balanced Counsel for Smart Clients®
> > 29 Kendal Dr
> > Kennett Square PA 19348-2323 USA
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